<Lissa> where are the logs for the html class, charlotte?

<cak> We don't have them posted yet--if you want an unedited one email me at cak@dm.net and I'll send what you want to you

<cak> Janet has some great pages though--especially for the html stuff

<Lineka> cak, you can ignore my email to you last week

<cak> OK, sorry a

<Lissa> where are Janet's html pages, charlotte?

<Lineka> I figured the out the thumbnail

<cak> 'bout not getting to these--they're getting away from me again

<MaggieB> did you take the html pages off?

<cak> (Yay Lineka!) Let me check the url on her pages Lissa

<Lissa> Lineka, are you using notepad/composer, or a program?

<Lissa> thanks, char

<MaggieB> hi froggie

<Lineka> notepad, Lissa

<cak> they should be there--Janet doesn't take *anything* off the server unless she has to

<MaggieB> hi janet

<Janet> Howdy howdy

<MaggieB> ok

<Lissa> that's how i did my pages, Lineka

<Lissa> hey, Janet *big smiles*

<Froggie> Hi everybody

<cak> (oops---I was talkin' 'bout ya Janet)

<Janet> what should be where?

<MaggieB> from the way they talked i thougtht gone

<Janet> Lissa! Long time no see!!

<Lissa> but i just started editing using Dreamweaver

<Lissa> Janet, i've been MAJOR mia

<Janet> I love dreamweaver. :)

<cak> Your html pages

<Lineka> how do you like that Lissa

<Janet> They are there.

<MaggieB> same place?

<MaggieB> k

<Janet> I don't take nothing off the server.<g>

<Janet> Sandy!

<MaggieB> good old janet

<Stampcat> HI

<Cheri> www.cyberstampers.com/html.html

<Lineka> hi Stampcat

<MaggieB> i like predictable

<Janet> Cheri! Froggie! Lineka! Maggie!

<Stampcat> Hi

<Froggie> Hi Janet

<Cheri> Janet! Welcome teacher

<MaggieB> the bead queen is here!

<Lissa> Lineka, i shied away from Dreamweaver cuz i love HTML

<Lissa> i know my tags cold, and i LOVE to code

<Janet> Yeah, call it predictable. Dependable. (anything but lazy<g>)

<cak> (thanks Cheri)

<MaggieB> what is dreamweaver?

<Lineka> oh, lol

<Lissa> but i wanted to put the cat's pages up quickly

<MaggieB> no not lazy

<Lissa> and man oh man, did it go FAST!

<Lineka> you are crazy then, huh? Lissa

<Lissa> Janet, i became a cat owner for the first time in my life!

<Lissa> Lineka...yup\

<Lissa> *grins*

<Lineka> lol

<Lissa> i'm a Geekette...and proud of it!

<Janet> I am a control freak. I like to CONTROL how things go, why I use notepad at least as often as I use dreamweaver

<Lissa> my friends laugh at me that i love to code so much, i put up 2 pages devoted to my new kitten!

<cak> Dreamweaver is a wsiwyg web page builder (and it does *great* code)

<Lissa> Janet, i'm like that too

<Janet> So it's graphics night tonight. YAY!

<MaggieB> wsiwyg?

<Janet> Hail Hail the gang's all here!

<MaggieB> yes graphics!

<RubberRabb> what you see is what you get

<Janet> what you see is what you get

<Lineka> hi RubberRabbit

<Lissa> what you see is what you get

<cak> oops What You See Is What You Get

<Lissa> *grins*

<Lissa> jinx, janet

<MaggieB> thanx

Janet punches lissa in the arm

<RubberRabb> Ih all--can I just lurk tonight? I'm not supposed to type much

<cak> (that's what it *shoulda" been--wysiwyg

<Lineka> lol, Oh no, 2 Janets tonight

<Cheri> WYSIWYG

<RubberRabb> hand problems

<MaggieB> k ty

<Janet> Oh dear. Yes, please lurk.

<Lineka> hand problems?

RubberRabbit lurks

<Froggie> Sorry to hear that Rabbit...don't answer me!

<RubberRabb> some kind of burning pain in my left hand

<MaggieB> should we have out any software?

<RubberRabb> going to pt on Thurs

<MaggieB> carpel tunnel?

<Lineka> too much mouse work

<RubberRabb> no

Lissa pokes Janet back

<Janet> THIS IS GOING TO BE INTRO TO THE CLASS, TALK ABOUT SOFTWARE AND THINGS WE'RE GOING TO BE LEARNING

<MaggieB> oh janet paint shop pro worked

Lissa gets all excited cuz class is starting

<RubberRabb> not in fingers, in the back of my wrist/hand--feels like a first degree burn

<Janet> YAY!

<Lissa> i love paint shop pro

<Lissa> just learning it

<MaggieB> it was the other one you had on the site that wouldnt

<Janet> OUCH

<Janet> OWEN!

<Owen> Hi.

<Lissa> hi, Owen

<Froggie> Hi Owen

<Lineka> hi Owen

<Cheri> Hi Owen

<MaggieB> hi owen

<cak> Owen!

RubberRabbit sits & lurks

Lissa greets those she missed

<cak> Is there an url Janet--or just discussion tonight?

Lissa loves discussion

<Janet> I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO TEACH YOU ALL HOW TO USE YOUR SOFTWARE. EVERYBODY HAS DIFFERENT (OR THE SAME BUT COULD BE DIFFERENT) AND URL IS JUST THE CLASS PAGE, NO CLASS NOTES YET

Lissa loves URLs too

<Owen> I like discussion.

<MaggieB> good, i hate buying software without knowing differences

<Janet> YOUR SOFTWARE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO MASK, IT WOULD BE NICE (BUT NOT MANDATORY) THAT IT DO OBJECT LAYERS.

<Lissa> photoshop?

<Janet> PHOTO SHOP IS A VERY GOOD CHOICE

<Lissa> cool

<Owen> Pixia wil do all that, and its free.

<Janet> (WILL SOMEONE GIVE ME $600 FOR THE NEW VERSION?)

<Owen> Not photoshop, nor even paint shop pro, but okay.

<Stampcat> Which one is the new version?

<Janet> FREE IS ALWAYS GOOD.

<Froggie> will corel photo paint 6 work?

<Janet> 6 IS THE NEW VERSION OF THE ADOBE

<Janet> COREL PHOTO PAINT WILL WORK VERY WELL

<Lissa> i have 5.5

<Stampcat> :) I am glad I have a new version

<Froggie> ty...whew!

<Owen> Course, I would be real happy with the current version of Paint Shop Pro, if I had 90 bucks.

<Lissa> i have psp7

<Janet> (AN ADOBE EMPLOYEE TOLD ME TO HOLD OFF UPGRADING TO 6 FOR A WHILE, UNTIL THE BUGS SHAKE OUT. SHE ALSO SAID SHE'D DENY TELLING ME THAT.)

<Froggie> I think I have the cd for that one Owen

<Froggie> Let me look for you

<Owen> So I get the freeware.

<cak> lol

<MaggieB> janet you mentioned you like Micrografx Picture Publisher?

<Janet> OWEN, GO CHECK OUT EBAY. MAGGIE FOUND REAL BARGAINS.

<Lissa> good idea, Janet

<Janet> YES, I USE THE MICROGRAFX PP A LOT!

<MaggieB> thanks janet..... i also lost them

<Janet> FIRST PROGRAM I LEARNED, YOU KNOW HOW THAT IS WITH COMFORT LEVEL AND ALL

<Owen> 10 bucks or less till the practice gets going, and god knows when that will be.

<Janet> LOL

<MaggieB> i am using the paint shop pro shareware for now

<RubberRabb> corel photohouse?

<Janet> OWEN, YOU CAN GET A VERSION OF PICTURE PUBLISHER FOR ABOUT $10

<Janet> I DON'T KNOW WHAT PHOTO HOUSE DOES, I'LL HAVE TO CHECK IT OUT. IT PROBABLY WILL DO WELL

<MaggieB> but not version 8 janet

<Owen> I actually did buy a copy of that , but it wouldn't install on here for some reason.

<Lissa> i KNOW i'm not using my software to its advantage

<Janet> PAINT SHOP PRO IS REALLY GOOD, BUT YOU DO HAVE TO PAY FOR IT IN 30 DAYS

<MaggieB> lots of version 7 if you run win 95

<Stampcat> Is Photodraw similar?

<Janet> I THINK IT IS

<Owen> Or buy it at a software store.

<Froggie> Nope, that's not the one I have......

<Janet> COREL PHOTO PAINT THAT COMES WITH COREL DRAW DOES ALL YOU NEED.

<MaggieB> at $300 bucks

<Owen> Satori looked real nice, but very hard to learn.

<Froggie> I will keep looking and send it to Qwne if I find it

<Janet> IT DOES ALMOST AS MUCH AS THE ADOBE. AND UNTIL YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF TRAPPING AND COLOR SEPS, I'D SAY GO FOR THE LESS EXPENSIVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING

<MaggieB> i hate investing without knowing what i really need

<Owen> I never got anywhere much with it, but I have seen lots of nice work done with it.

<Stampcat> Why is it important to layer?

<MaggieB> of course janet loves to buy them ALL!

<Owen> Thanks Froggie.

<Janet> IT'S NOT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT, BUT IT MAKES THINGS EASIER

<Lissa> layering helps so you can preserve the non mistakes

<Stampcat> I need to know layering

<Froggie> yw

<Lissa> or as i like to call 'em...the non-screwups

<Janet> WELL, YEAH. I OWN THEM ALL AND HAVE THIS PSYCHOLOGICAL NEED TO HAVE THE LATEST VERSIONS. WHETHER I USE THEM OR NOT

<Janet> IT'S SORTA LIKE NEEDING TO OWN ALL THE COLORS OF INKPADS

<MaggieB> kinda like rubber huh?

<Froggie> it's here somewhere, it was given to me free, so I'll pass it on

<Lissa> you're a completist, Janet!

<MaggieB> and beads

<Janet> LOL

<MaggieB> what are you passing froggie?

<Janet> (YES, I SPENT MOST OF THE DAY DRAWING ILLUSTRATIONS FOR WIRE WRAPPING CLASS)

<Froggie> a cd to owen

<Lissa> she's passing notes

<Lissa> *peers at the notes*

<Froggie> No candy

<RubberRabb> also have adobe 1.1 it does layers but I don't know what else

<MaggieB> oh!!

<Owen> And I was saying thanks.

<Janet> AND RAN OUT TO BUY MORE WIRE TO MAKE MORE SAMPLES, THEN DECIDED IT WOULD BE EASIER TO UNDERSTAND IF I DREW IT

<Owen> I can send my address, or put it here or whatever.

<Janet> SO ANYWAYS.

<MaggieB> janet you are good.......

<Lissa> drawing it, Janet...how?

<Froggie> ok

<MaggieB> so we need masking and layer if possibel

<Janet> I USED COREL DRAW TO DRAW THE ILLUSTRATIONS, THEN PULLED THOSE INTO COREL PHOTO PAINT TO ADJUST THE BITMAP VERSIONS OF THEM.

<MaggieB> hopefully it will tell us that on the packaging

<Owen> I was supposed to get a webpage done by today, but I spent the weekend working and worrying about the plumbing.

<Janet> THEN PULLED THEM INTO FIREWORKS TO OPTIMIZE THE SIZE OF THEM.

<Lissa> fireworks...that isn't a freebie, is it..?

<MaggieB> oh my gosh janet no wonder you own them all

<Stampcat> I need to know why to use different formats

<Janet> MAGGIE, IF IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT OBJECT LAYERS, IT SHOULD DO EVERYTHING

<MaggieB> ty

<Owen> What does Fireworks do for you?

<Janet> WELL AND I COULD HAVE DONE IT ALL IN FIREWORKS. IT'S THAT LAZY THING. DIFFERENT PROGRAMS ARE BETTER ON DIFFERENT TASKS

<Owen> I have seen the program.

RubberRabbit puts on a mask and some layers..

<Lineka> lol

Lissa thinks RR is going skiing

<Owen> Too hot for layers here.

<Janet> FIREWORKS DOES THE BEST JOB OF MAKING THE SMALLEST FILE SIZES. IMPORTANT ON WEB PAGES

<MaggieB> like a bag lady rabbit

<Froggie> shut up rabbit, you're not sposed to type

RubberRabbit lurking bag lady

<Janet> OOO NICE MASK, RR. I DO LIKE THOSE FEATHERS.

<Lineka> lol

<RubberRabb> i can do it one handed

Lissa writes "Fireworks" on her wish list

<MaggieB> could use something like adobe photo deluxe if just want to make smaller right?

Janet RESISTS TOUCHING THAT STRAIGHT LINE

<Lineka> that's probably faster than me, RubberRabbit

<RubberRabb> lol

<Stampcat> Does Adobe make files smaller?

<Janet> SO DOES EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT SOFTWARE THEY ARE GOING TO USE FOR THIS CLASS?

<MaggieB> pics anyhow

RubberRabbit loves to tempt janet

<MaggieB> to start with anyhow

<Janet> THEY ALL DO. SOME EASIER THAN OTHERS.

<Lissa> probably Photoshop 5.5

<Froggie> yes

<Owen> Most all of them will make smaller files.

<cak> I do!

<Stampcat> Yes

<Lineka> yes I have 2 ...Ulead...should I stick to just 1

<Cheri> yes, i am going with Paint Shop Pro for now

<Owen> Yes.

<MaggieB> until the shareware license runs out I will use Paint Shop Pro

<RubberRabb> maybe

<Janet> THAT'S THE ONE I SAW. ULEAD! DO YOU LIKE IT?

<Cheri> me too Maggie

<Owen> Unless you become a professional webgraphics artist, one simple one will do all you need.

<MaggieB> going to also check the hubbies office

<Lineka> I haven't tried it yet, Janet

<Janet> MAGGIE, BUT BY THEN YOU'LL BE HOOKED ON PSP AND YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.<G>

<Janet> (DON'T ASK ME HOW i KNOW THAT)

<Froggie> I have Ulead photo express on a cd

<Lineka> will I be confused if I use both?

<Janet> NO, YOU SHOULDN'T BE CONFUSED.

<Lineka> that will be the day, Janet, LOL

RubberRabbit is easily confused

<MaggieB> they probably only have engineering software anyhow

<Janet> AND SOME PROGRAMS HAVE BETTER OR DIFFERENT FANCY FILTERS. WHICH ARE A LOT OF FUN, WE'LL PLAY WITH THOSE IN A FEW WEEKS.

<Cheri> is MS Paint any good?

<Janet> IT WILL GET YOU STARTED, CHERI

<Lissa> i used the stained glass filter for my homepage

<Janet> IT COMES WITH WINDOWS (MAKING IT AS GOOD AS FREE, AND FREE IS ALWAYS GOOD)

<Lineka> lol

<Cheri> lol

<MaggieB> free is excellent

<Janet> AND LOOK AT EBAY. THERE ARE A LOT OF "NOT THE LATEST VERSION" OF THESE HIGH DOLLAR PROGRAMS GOING CHEAP.

<MaggieB> so what will we cover janet?

<RubberRabb> found ms paint!

<Janet> THIS WEEK I WANT TO START TALKING ABOUT FILE FORMATS (ANOTHER THING TO CHECK TO MAKE SURE YOUR SOFTWARE DOES)

<Janet> NEXT WEEK WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SIZE

<Stampcat> This I need to know

<Janet> UNLIKE REAL LIFE, BIGGER IS NOT BETTER ON WEB PAGES

<Janet> HI, SUSAN!

<Owen> Completely Free Software has some nice drawing and painting programs. brb got to make tea.

<Froggie> lol

<RubberRabb> does size matter?

<RubberRabb> always thought it didn't

<Janet> SIZE MATTERS.<G>

<Lissa> hot chocolate for me, Owen, thanks

<RubberRabb> rofl

<Cheri> good thing he went to make tea

<Janet> SOME PEOPLE ARE IMPATIENT ENOUGH THAT IF YOUR GRAPHICS TAKE LONGER THAN 20 SECONDS TO LOAD, THEY'VE SURFED ON TO ANOTHER PAGE

<Janet> AND WE DON'T WANT THAT!

<Lissa> *sheepish* i do that to them with the music i threw onto the site *g*

<Janet> NOT THAT I'D KNOW ANYONE WHO WON'T WAIT FOR THINGS TO LOAD. OH NO, NOT ME<G>

<Janet> (I ALSO TURN OFF SOUND FILES)

<Janet> LOL

<Lissa> *grins*

<Lissa> i won't hold it against ya, Teach

RubberRabbit hands janet award for patience

Lissa still wants to be Teacher's Pet

<MaggieB> I HATE sounds on the internet!

<MaggieB> intrusive to me

<Janet> FOR THE WEB, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED TO MAKE YOUR FILES BE GIF OR JPG (JPEG) OR PNG

<MaggieB> pmg?

<MaggieB> mac?

<Janet> MANY OF YOUR PROGRAMS WON'T MAKE PNG, IT'S A NEW FILE FORMAT

<MaggieB> for anyone?

<Janet> BOTH PC AND MAC

<RubberRabb> so what does png mean

<Owen> Sorry, the teamaker was done.

<MaggieB> hmmmm interesting

<Lissa> what is the diff between jpg and gif?

<Stampcat> Graphics artists use this..right?

<RubberRabb> gif for limited colors

<Janet> THE DEAL IS THAT COMPUSERVE DEVELOPED GIF FORMATTING, AND THERE ARE ROYALTY ISSUES

<Lissa> oh *g*

<Janet> SO THE WEB MAVENS (DON'T ASK ME DETAILS HERE) GOT TOGETHER TO DEVELOP A NEW FORMAT, THAT WOULD DO WHAT GIF DOES

<MaggieB> that is why my new label making software wont use gifs!!

<MaggieB> i have to convert them first to jpeg!

<MaggieB> silly

<Janet> THE COMPRESSION IS GOOD ON PNG AND THERE'S SOMEWHAT A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN IT AND VECTOR GRAPHICS (ANOTHER TOPIC WE'LL GET TO)

<Lissa> i always use jpg

<RubberRabb> goody--you'll tell us what raster and vector mean

<Janet> BUT A LOT OF YOUR SOFTWARE, ESPECIALLY THE OLDER VERSIONS, WON'T DO PNG. SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

<Janet> I JUST HAD TO MENTION IT TO BE COMPLETE HERE

<MaggieB> i always use jpg this was the first time I came across software that wasn't permitted to import a gif file

<MaggieB> because of copyright

<Janet> JPG FORMAT HAS ALL THE COLORS, THE COMPRESSION OF THOSE AND OF GIF FORMATS IS DIFFERENT.

<Owen> The copyright issue just came to a head recently.

<Janet> SO THEY ARE BETTER SUITED TO DIFFERENT THINGS

<Lissa> you suggest both? or sticking to one?

<cak> don't you have to be more careful with lose of info with jpgs?

<Owen> jpg is lossy,

<Owen> worse than gif.

<Janet> GIF WILL MAKE TRANSPARENT BACKGROUNDS (ETHICALLY I'D BE SUGGESTING PNG FOR TRANSPARENT BACKGROUND GRAPHICS, PRACTICALLY I'LL TELL YOU THAT IF YOUR SOFTWARE DOES GIF AND NOT PNG, DO GIF)

<Janet> DON'T SKIP AHEAD. I'M GETTING TO THAT. LOL

<cak> oops (sorry)

<MaggieB> how do you pronounce png?

<Owen> Sorry, I am listening.

<Owen> Really.

Owen hangs head and hides.

<RubberRabb> owen can't hide

<Owen> ping

<RubberRabb> I'm already over here lurking

<Janet> I SAY IT "PING" I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU REALLY DO. I SAY "GIF" AS GIFT MINUS THE T BUT FRANK TELLS ME IT'S JIFF LIKE THE PEANUT BUTTER

<RubberRabb> pong

<Owen> Other corner, RR

<Janet> AND JAY-PEG

<MaggieB> ok... i say jiff too

RubberRabbit thinks> & it's a round room

<Janet> I'M SURE GLAD THIS IS TYPING AND NOT TALKING<G>

<MaggieB> jaypeg and ping sounds right

<MaggieB> lol

<Lissa> oooooooo....i say GIF hard G

<RubberRabb> fig if you have dyslexia

<Janet> I DON'T SAY MITER RIGHT EITHER.<G>

<Owen> Compuserve says it is a soft g, but who cares.

<Lineka> lol

<Janet> LOL

<MaggieB> so transparencies use png if we have it if not use gif

<MaggieB> jpg for pics?

<Lissa> i don't need to say miter, so i don't need to say it right or wrong *g*

<Janet> ANYWAYS, IF YOU HAVE A GRAPHIC THAT YOU WANT TO SIT ON YOUR BACKGROUND WITHOUT THE SQUARE EDGES, YOU NEED TO USE GIF/PNG

<Janet> JPG WON'T DO THAT

<MaggieB> without the square edges?

<MaggieB> like cut around the image?

<Janet> AND MANY TIMES A GIF IS SMALLER, ESPECIALLY WITH A GRAPHIC WITH FEWER COLORS

<Janet> YEAH, LIKE CUT AROUND THE IMAGE.

<Owen> Like a decal on a transparent film

<Lissa> *grins* now i understand why my pegs never got transparent..

<MaggieB> so it appears to float?

<Janet> OH PERFECT. LIKE A ECAL

<Janet> DECAL

<Janet> SO IT APPEARS TO FLOAT

<MaggieB> oh k!

<RubberRabb> like a genie

<Janet> PHOTOS ARE USUALLY BEST DONE AS JPG SINCE YOU WANT MORE COLORS TO SHOW UP

<MaggieB> would you recommend when looking for software that we look for ones with png if investing?

<MaggieB> ant amt of bigger $$?

<Stampcat> Where do Bitmaps and Tiffs fit in?

<cak> how does png do with colors? broader color palette than gif?

<Janet> WE'LL GET TO SIZE ISSUES NEXT WEEK, AND HOW TO MAKE YOUR FILES SMALLER. BUT YOU'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE BEST LOOKING FILE AT THE SMALLEST SIZE POSSIBLE FOR WEB WORK

<RubberRabb> which are not bmps

<Janet> BITMAPS (WELL, THAT'S A GENERIC TERM) BMP AND TIF ARE PROPRIATORY FORMATS FOR DIFFERENT SOFTWARES

<MaggieB> gif is smaller than jpg.....? what size are png's?

<Owen> And rememberting that browsers don't do millions of colours.

<Janet> PNG HAS A VERY BROAD COLOR PALETTE, IT'S BEING DEVELOPED ESPECIALLY FOR WEB WORK

<Stampcat> What is Tif comparable to?

<RubberRabb> a small spat

<Janet> ACTUALLY LET'S BACK UP A BIT...

<Stampcat> :)

<Janet> AND TOUCH ON VECTOR VS BITMAP

<Janet> COMPUTER GRAPHICS ARE BASICALLY EITHER BITMAPS OR VECTOR IMAGES. ...

<RubberRabb> what is the diff

<Janet> A DRAWING PROGRAM, LIKE A CAD OR ILLUSTRATION (COREL DRAW, ADOBE ILLUSTRATOR) WILL MAKE VECTOR IMAGES...

<Stampcat> *Getting out notebook*

<Janet> (I'M GETTING THERE<G>0

<RubberRabb> ok

<Janet> (WEB BROWSERS WON'T SEE VECTOR IMAGES WITHOUT ADD IN PROGRAMS)

<MaggieB> what is a vector image??

<Stampcat> ?

<Janet> THE FILE OF A VECTOR IMAGE IS FULL OF MATH SORT OF THINGS, IT SAVES WHAT ANGLES THINGS ARE AT, INTERSECTION POINTS, STUFF LIKE THAT...

<Janet> IF YOU THINK REAL SIMPLISTICALLY, IT'S LOOKING AND SAVING THE IMAGE AS AN OBJECT OR SET OF OBJECTS

RubberRabbit eyes glaze over

<Janet> YEAH.<G>

<Janet> NOW A BITMAP IS SAVED AS A COLLECTION OF DOTS

<Stampcat> So why can't it be read?

<Janet> WHAT COLOR IS WHAT DOT

<Janet> BROWSERS JUST DON'T DO IT.

<Stampcat> Oh...

<RubberRabb> like a painting?

<MaggieB> like a tv screen

<Janet> YEAH, LIKE A PAINTING.

<Janet> LIKE A TV SCREEN

<cak> (a pointilistic painting!)

<Froggie> like a halftone

<RubberRabb> or a stampscape stamp

<Janet> IF YOU HAVE EVER TRIED TO MAKE A JPG IMAGE A LOT BIGGER THAN IT IS?

MaggieB mom always yelled at me to back UP! from the tv screen

<RubberRabb> yes

<Janet> YOU'LL NOTICE "THE JAGGIES"

<MaggieB> grainy

<RubberRabb> yes

<Janet> YES!

<Froggie> yeah

<Janet> MAKING IT BIGGER MAKES THE DOTS BIGGER

<Janet> A VECTOR IMAGE DOESN'T GET THAT, BECAUSE IT'S SAVED AS LINES AND ANGLES

<MaggieB> doesnt work well

<RubberRabb> dots become tumors

<MaggieB> but what is a vector image??

<Stampcat> So you convert vectors?

<Janet> SO IT ENLARGES PERFECTLY

<John> Sorry, my ISP cut me off.

<Janet> AND YES, FOR WEB GRAPHICS YOU CONVERT YOUR VECTOR IMAGES TO BITMAPPED IMAGES

<RubberRabb> ah so a graphics collection is better with more vector graphics

<MaggieB> are those fonts that convert sizes vector images?

<MomCat> If you put down a circle of color as a vector, you can only do things to the entire circle

<Janet> HI, JOHN. (LOOKS LIKE THAT'S CATCHING, THERE GOES OWEN)

<Janet> OH. DER. THAT IS OWEN.

<Janet> (DER)

<Janet> GOODNESS.

<MaggieB> janet..... i am confused

<MaggieB> what is a vector image?

<MomCat> If you put down a circle of color in a bit map you can change each dot if you want

<MaggieB> will we learn how to make them?

<RubberRabb> I get it--a jpg is a collection of little dots like a newspaper photo--if you enlarge it you just get a collection of bigger dots

<Janet> LOL. LET'S JUST PUT THE VECTOR IMAGE THEORY BACK TO THE BACK OF OUR HEADS... THESE MUST BE CONVERTED TO BITMAPPED IMAGES FOR THE WEB.

<Stampcat> A drawing that can't be read by a screen?

<Janet> AND MOSTLY YOU'LL BE WORKING WITH BITMAPS

<Janet> A VECTOR IS LIKE A BALLOON.

<Janet> SORTA KINDA

<Lineka> Janet?

<RubberRabb> but a vector graphic is more like a photo negative--you can enlarge them forever because they are solids and lines

<Janet> YES?

<Lineka> Is it better to manipulate photo in bitmap the turn to jpg?

<Froggie> Hi Raven

<MaggieB> i thought we didn't use bmp's on the wew tho

<Stampcat> So you play with vectors and then convert?

RubberRabbit hops into ravens lap with her mask and her layers and lurks happily

<^^raven^^> hi all

<Lissa> raven *hugs*

<Janet> YES, IT IS. WHATEVER YOUR SOFTWARE'S NATIVE FORMAT (WHAT FORMAT IT SAVES AS DEFAULT) IS BEST TO USE UNTIL YOUR VERY LAST STEP

<RubberRabb> {{raven}}

<Stampcat> How do you know native?

<Janet> A LOT OF TIMES THAT WILL BE TIF OR BMP OR SOMETIMES A FORMAT THAT JUST THAT PROGRAM USES.

MaggieB is confused but figures she will figure it out as class progresses and we do hands on stuff

<John> This is not very funny.

<RubberRabb> yup

Raven is feeling very huggged\led and snuggled!

<Janet> YES, HANDS ON STUFF IS A LOT EASIER THAN THIS THEORY STUFF.

<Lineka> I'm sure it is, Janet

<MaggieB> it is abstract..... i like concrete

RubberRabbit hands owen mask and layers so he can stay in one place and lurk

<Lineka> that's the way I learn best, hands on

<Janet> BUT I'D FEEL GUILTY IF I JUST SAID "DO PHOTOS AS JPG AND DO GRAPHIC TYPE STUFF AS GIF"

<MaggieB> can conprehend better

<RubberRabb> well it helps to know why we do things

<MaggieB> this is true

<RubberRabb> even if we don't understand it til later

<Stampcat> Why is good

<MaggieB> thats why i figure the light bulb will eventually go on

<Janet> AND SOME OF THIS WILL MAKE SENSE AS WE LEARN MORE THINGS, LIKE NEXT WEEK WHEN WE START PLAYING WITH MAKING OUR IMAGE FILE SIZES SMALLER, YOU'LL SEE BY LOOKING WHEN SOMETHING IS SMALLER AS A GIF OR SMALLER AS A JPG

<Lineka> do we ever REALLY understand RubberRabbit?

<Owen> Knowing why makes doing it easier for me.

<RubberRabb> Rubber Rabbits are hard to understand

Lissa can't wait till next week *g*

<Janet> JPG COMPRESSION IS RATHER LIKE A ROAD MAP, VISUALIZE THIS MAYBE?

<Lineka> lol

<--> MaggieB I don't know if this'll help or hurt--vector graphics are made up of pixels that are "connected" to each other, so if you move one, you move them all. (and they keep smooth outlines when enlarged)

<Stampcat> Road map?

<Janet> LIKE IF YOU'RE GOING FROM ST LOUIS TO CHICAGO...

<RubberRabb> by raven

Lineka slaps RubberRabbit on the hand and send you to the corner

<Raven> huh?

<Janet> WELL, IF YOU'RE GOING FROM NYC TO ST LOUIS, YOU'D NOT WANT TO SEE EVERY SMALL TOWN IN BETWEEN, YOU'D LIKE KNOWING "GO TO CLEVELAND THEN GO TO INDIANAPOLIS THEN GO TO CHICAGO" TYPE MAP

<RubberRabb> OW!

<Lineka> lol

RubberRabbit weeps copiously on Raven's shoulder

<Janet> BUT IF YOU'RE GOING FROM TULSA TO OKLAHOMA CITY, YOU'D WANT TO KNOW ABOUT JINKS AND GLEN POOL

Lineka apologizes

<Janet> AND A JPG COMPRESSES LIKE THIS, IT DROPS OUT THE DETAILS YOU DON'T NEED

<Janet> YOUR EYES/BRAIN FILL IN THE MISSING BITS

<Stampcat> Don't need?

<RubberRabb> who doesn't need Jinks?!

<Janet> YEAH, LIKE THE 2 MILLION COLORS BETWEEN THE SHADING OF GREEN TO BLUE

<Stampcat> How does it look if you compress too much?

<Janet> YOUR EYE WILL SEE THAT JUST FINE WITH ONLY, SAY, 43 COLOR SHADINGS

<Raven> yucky... LOL!

<Janet> IT LOOKS UH PIXELATED

<Owen> Thats the drawback to jpg. The more often you mess with the image, the more detail you lose.

<RubberRabb> what rabbits are when they are on pain killers

<RubberRabb> pixelated

<Janet> YEAH. PIXELATED.<G>

<Lineka> that's what happened to some of my jpg!

<Owen> I was pixilated once.

<Owen> Or twice, or more.

<RubberRabb> but they gave you the antidote

<Janet> OWEN BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT, THIS WEEK AS YOU'RE PLAYING WITH YOUR PROGRAMS, ALWAYS SAVE YOUR WORK FILES UNCOMPRESSED AND IN THE FORMAT YOUR PROGRAM LIKES BEST.

<Lineka> not twiterpated?

<Raven> I promised never to get pixelated again

<Lissa> or transmogrified?

<RubberRabb> spoilsport

<Stampcat> How do you choose uncompressed?

<Janet> LIKE PICTURE PUBLISHER LIKES PP* FORMAT (THE * IS WHATEVER VERSION IT IS)

<Janet> OR TIF, UNCOMPRESSED TIF, YOU SHOULD GET THE CHOICE TO COMPRESS OR NOT

Lineka is getting one of those headaches again

<Janet> OR IF YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE AS A JPG, SAVE IT AS A 1:1 COMPRESSION

<Raven> or rasterized :-)

<RubberRabb> I need 30mg compression all the time

<Lineka> lol

<Janet> SO YOU KEEP ALL YOUR PIXELS IN PLACE UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE, WHEN YOU CONVERT IT AND DROP OUT COLORS AND MAKE IT SMALL FOR YOUR WEB PAGE.

<Janet> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

<cak> Yep!

<RubberRabb> nail them pixels to the wall

<Lineka> clear as mud, Janet

<Lissa> resize after everything else?

<Froggie> ditto

<Janet> ALTHOUGH... IF YOU SCAN AN 8X10" PHOTO WITH 64 MILLION COLORS IN THE SCAN?

<Lineka> but I'm sure it will clear up after all

<MaggieB> like adobe has its own format so save it as that?

<Janet> AND AT 400 DPI?

<Lineka> you are an excellent teacher!

<Janet> YES, MAGGIE

<cak> (you'd better have a lot of memory)

<Janet> SAY YOU SCAN SOMETHING AT 400 DPI, ON THE TRUE COLOR SETTING?

<Lissa> adobe does .psd

<Owen> I can't remember this morning.

<Janet> AND IT'S 8X10" BIG? WE'RE TALKING 100+ MEGS FOR THE GRAPHIC

<RubberRabb> the sun rose--I remember that much

<Lineka> lol

<RubberRabb> or the rose sunned--

<Lineka> lol

<Owen> I think I remember a rose sun.

<cak> so what do you recommend for that situation?

<Janet> BUT IF YOU'VE SCANNED A CARD FOR YOUR SITE, AND YOU'VE SCANNED IT AT 75 DPI (ABOUT AS MUCH AS A MONITOR SCREEN HAS SO IT WILL LOOK LIFE SIZE) THEN YOU'RE OKAY, THAT'S LESS THAN A MEG BIG

<cak> (I've got photos to work with after all)

<Janet> FOR THE 8X10 SITUATION? WELL, IF YOU'RE GOING TO PRINT IT AND YOU WANT IT TO BE GOOD, UH, WELL, HAVE A BIG HARD DRIVE.

<Lissa> how do you set the dpi for scanning?

<cak> lol

<Janet> THAT DEPENDS ON YOUR SOFTWARE, YOUR SCANNING SOFTWARE SHOULD HAVE AN OPTIONS SCREEN WHERE YOU CAN SET THE DPI

<RubberRabb> oh baby

<cak> (and really fast processor)

<RubberRabb> and a really good printer!!

<Lissa> 75 is good, then?

<Janet> WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME AND i'VE JUST WANDERED AROUND TALKING ABOUT THEORY. I HOPE SOME OF THIS SINKS IN IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, IT WON'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE ON THE FACE OF IT NOW.

<Owen> And lots of patience.

<MomCat> and the paper you print it on makes a B-I-G difference

<Froggie> homework??

<Lissa> ?me prints on gray matter

<Lineka> YES! Poor Janet...bless her heart

<Lissa> whoops

<RubberRabb> come wash my windows

<Janet> 75 DPI IS HOW A MONITOR SCREEN SEES. I USUALLY SCAN AT 150 DPI AND THEN MESS WITH THE SCAN AND RIGHT BEFORE I PUT IT ON THE WEB, i REDUCE THE SIZE OF IT BY HALF.

<cak> (Froggie's goin' for teacher's pet--she's asking for homework)

<Janet> YES, YOU HAVE HOMEWORK!

<Janet> LOL

<Lissa> yayyyy!

Lissa loves homework

RubberRabbit sighs deeply

<Froggie> *snort*

<Janet> YOU ALL NEED SOFTWARE. YOUR HOMEWORK IS TO GET TO KNOW YOUR SOFTWARE, PLAY WITH IT, PUNCH THE BUTTONS.

<Lissa> cool1

<Lissa> !

<RubberRabb> one-handed

<Lineka> OK

Lissa can't type with the kitten squirming on her shoulder

<Janet> YOU CAN'T BREAK IT, SO JUST MESS WITH IT, SEE WHAT ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES DO

<Cheri> ok

<MaggieB> warning..... paint shop pro shareware is 30 day BUT it runs out in 20 times!

<Owen> Who says you can't break it? I bet I can.

<Lineka> lol

<Janet> SCAN A PHOTO OR SOMETHING (OR SWIPE ONE OFF THE WEB) AND PLAY WITH THAT IN YOUR SOFTWARE.

<Janet> (SO DON'T EVER CLOSE IT, MAGGIE, LEAVE IT MINIMIZED)

<MomCat> and if your software does something you didn't expect, try to remember how you did that.

<Lineka> Now that sounds like fun

<MaggieB> i know that is what the heads up is for

<Janet> JUST PLAY!

<MaggieB> but computer bogs down after a while

<Lissa> yes, momcat *g* that's something i learned with stamping

<MomCat> 'cause someday you are going to want to do that accidental thing on purpose

<Lineka> lol

<Lineka> Thank you Janet.

<Janet> AND UNLESS YOU SAVE WHAT YOU DO AND OVER WRITE YOUR ORIGINAL, YOU'VE NOT LOST A THING. SO PLAY!

<Froggie> yes, ty janet

<Janet> AND

<Janet> AND

<MomCat> Thanks Janet.

<Stampcat> TY Janet

<Janet> MORE HOMEWORK

<Janet> FOR NEXT WEEK

<Lissa> yayyyyy

<Janet> I WANT EACH OF YOU TO...

<MaggieB> lissa you love homework?

<Lissa> yup

<Lissa> *g*

<MaggieB> yes janet?

<MaggieB> †

<Janet> KNOW HOW TO SAVE A GRAPHIC, HOW TO SAVE A GRAPHIC AS A DIFFERENT NAME, AND HOW TO SAVE A GRAPHIC AS A DIFFERENT FILE FORMAT

<Lineka> ok

<MaggieB> k can do that

<Janet> AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW TO REDUCE THE COLORS IN THE GRAPHIC AND REDUCE THE PIXELS OR SIZE OF IT

<Froggie> I can do that!!!!! Yepppers, I know that one!

<MaggieB> colors and size

<Janet> REDUCING THE SIZE, THAT'S USUALLY IN THE FILE OR IMAGE MENU. FIND IT.

<MaggieB> i am sure glad i log

<Janet> REDUCING THE COLORS IS A LOT OF TIMES IN WITH THE CHANGING OF THE FILE FORMAT, OR IN THTA MENU

<Janet> YOU FIND OUT HOW YOUR SOFTWARE DOES IT. PRACTICE DOING IT.

<Janet> AND COME TO CLASS KNOWING THIS

<Stampcat> Time to have a scavenger hunt

<Janet> KNOWING HOW TO DO IT

<Janet> WE GO HANDS ON NEXT WEEK!

<Geekette-a> YAYYYYYY

<RubberRabb> hand on!

<Janet> THOSE ARE THE SKILLS YOU NEED FOR NEXT WEEK.

<Lineka> OH, silly Wabbit

<Janet> RESIZING A GRAPHIC. REDUCING THE COLORS IN A GRAPHIC.

<RubberRabb> should have a brace by then

<Janet> CHANGING THE FILE FORMAT AND SAVING IT AS A DIFFERENT NAME.

<Geekette-a> should NEED a brace by then

<Janet> YOU CAN DO IT! LEARN THESE THINGS AND COME TO CLASS KNOWING HOW YOUR SOFTWARE DOES THAT.

<Janet> OH!

<Froggie> oh?

<RubberRabb> naw--those things are easy in a lot of programs (photoshop does it with the push of a button)

<Geekette-a> RR, you're right

<Janet> AND COME TO CLASS WITH A PHOTO TO PLAY WITH (ALREADY SCANNED IN) AND A LOGO OR DRAWING OR GRAPHIC=Y GRAPHIC TO PLAY WITH

<MaggieB> k

<Janet> AND I'LL PUT ONE OF EACH ON THE CLASS NOTES BEFORE NEXT WEEK, TOO,

<RubberRabb> layers are a bit harder

<Lineka> OK

<Janet> GOT IT?

<RubberRabb> I need a map in rabbitlandia

<MaggieB> got it

<Janet> SEE YOU NEXT WEEK! yay!

<Lineka> yep

<Geekette-a> yayyyyyyyyyy

<RubberRabb> so will make a line drawing

<Lineka> by ty

<RubberRabb> cool

<Janet> (AND SEE YOU IN A MINUTE IN #craftclass SINCE I'M TEACHING THAT ONE TOO TONIGHT)

<cak> Thank you Janet (you're a brave one!)

<Geekette-a> thanks Janet

Log file closed at 6/5/01 8:59:02 PM