<MomCat> Okay, the bad news first:

<deb> uh oh

<cak> this doesn't sound good

<AliciaG> uh oh

<keribou> uh oh

<MomCat> I didn't have time to write Sara in time to get a prize for this class

<deb> that's ok - classes don't need prizes all the time

<cak> is that all? the info is prize enough!

<Vyx> That's okay!

<AliciaG> oh prizes!

<MomCat> LOL

<deb> yeah!

<AliciaG> I can help you out there

<cak> (alicia's in a giving frenzy)

<AliciaG> none of my stuff is minimalistic though

<cak> lol

<deb> lol that's ok AliciaG

<deb> sara is sponsoring this class

<AliciaG> oh

<deb> Paper Odysem

<deb> Odysey

<deb> or however you spell that

<deb> still doesn't look right

<Vyx> I have some paper I could donate for a prize...

<deb> used to be Sara's Expressions

<LLB> Odyssey?

<AliciaG> there ya go llb

<Vyx> It ain't Sara's paper, tho.

<deb> yes thanks

<deb> that'sok vyx

<deb> we don't need a prize

<deb> let's let Momcat get on with class

<deb> when she's ready

<AliciaG> okie Momcat

<LLB> rock and roll, MomC

<MomCat> Sara sponsored it last time, but I'm not sure she knows about it this time

<MomCat> I KNOW SOME OF YOU WERE HERE THE LAST TIME I DID THIS CLASS

<MomCat> HAVE ANY OF YOU TRIED "MINIMALIST" COLLAGE SINCE THEN?

<rabbitsmom> what's the url for the class

<AliciaG> i need a refresher momcat

<deb> http://www.dm.net/~cak/crqueens/

<MomCat> OR DO YOU YAVE ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT IT?

<MomCat> OKAY

<deb> diane I'm sure we have newbies

<deb> who weren't here last time

<MomCat> I LOVE ALL THE ITEMS AND PAPERS THAT COME IN COLLAGE PACKS, BUT I FIND "TRADITIONAL" COLLAGE A BIT DAUNTING.

<rabbitsmom> TY

<cak> I've done some "hardly collage", does that count?

<Vyx> I haven't tried any kind of collage.

<stubby> not familar with it Mom

<MomCat> DEB, I AM, TOO

<MomCat> I JUST WANTED TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO CONTRIBUTE

<MomCat> I AM THINKING OF "TRADITIONAL" AS A GROUPING OF IMAGES AND/OR OBJECTS THAT USUALLY CARRY OUT A THEME.

<MomCat> I JUST DON'T THINK IN THEMES AND MOST COLLAGES LOOK LIKE WAY MORE TIME AND WORK THAN I WANT TO PUT INTO ONE PIECE.

<deb> http://www.dm.net/~cak/crqueens/

<MomCat> IF YOU LOOK AT COLLAGES IN THE VARIOUS VENDORS' GALLERIES, THERE'S USUALLY LOTS OF STUFF ON THERE!!!

<Vyx> too much stuff

<stubby> so goes the term minimal, love the simplicity

<MomCat> OR AT LEAST IT LOOKS LIKE A LOT TO ME

<MomCat> EXACTLY AND THANK YOU, STUBBY

<MomCat> I AM A LAZY STAMPER. :) SO I DECIDED TO JUST USE ALL THE THINGS I LOVE IN MY OWN WAY.

<MomCat> THE RESULT IS VERY SIMPLE COLLAGES OR PIECES THAT AREN'T QUITE COLLAGES BUT USE ONE OR TWO ELEMENTS THAT YOU NORMALLY FIND IN COLLAGES.

<MomCat> I CALL THIS "MINIMALIST COLLAGE.

<alisara> simple... minimalist... words I need to learn! lol

<MomCat> SOMEBODY ONCE ASKED ME, "WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COLLAGE AND LAYERING?" I THOUGHT ABOUT THIS OFF AND ON FOR DAYS.

<Vyx> that was gonna be my question, lol

<MomCat> AND FINALLY DECIDED THAT LAYERING =FRAMES= THE PICTURE, BUT ITEMS IN A COLLAGE ARE AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE PICTURE.

<LLB> OK, What is the difference between collage and assemblage?

<MomCat> DOES THAT HELP, VYX?

<MomCat> LLB, THERE ARE TECHNICAL DEFINITIONS FOR BOTH WHICH I HAVE FORGOTTEN

<MomCat> I DON'T THINK WHAT I DO IS TECHNICALLY EITHER

<jaxstamper> sorry i am late

<MomCat> THOUGHT THE CORAL REEF QUEEN IS PROBABLY ASSEMBLAGE

<MomCat> SOMETIMES THE TWO (LAYERING AND COLLAGE) ARE COMBINED IN THE SAME PIECE.

<MomCat> THERE IS A STORY BEHIND THE MERMAIDS. ABOUT 2 CONVENTIONS AGO, I WON FIBERS FROM SARA'S EXPRESSIONS IN HER SOCIAL.

<MomCat> WHEN I LOOKED A THE FIBERS, ONE FIBER LOOKED LIKE SEAWEED TO ME AND ANOTHER LIKE MERMAID'S HAIR.

<deb> http://www.dm.net/~cak/crqueens/

<MomCat> SO I WENT LOOKING FOR A MERMAID STAMP AND SELECTED THE CORAL REEF QUEEN FROM TIME TO STAMP. http://cyberstampers.com/convention/timetostamp/ THEN FROM SARA'S EXPRESSIONS (NOW PAPER ODDYSEY) http://cyberstampers.com/convention/paperodyssey/ I GOT THE UNDER THE SEA COLLAGE PACK.

<MomCat> (BOTH THESE VENDORS ALSO HAVE MALL SHOPS)

<MomCat> WHEN I STARTED TO WORK WITH THE MERMAID AND THE COLLAGE ITEMS, THE FIBERS THAT HAD STARTED THE WHOLE THING. JUST DIDN'T FIT.

<MomCat> SO, FOLLOW YOUR INSPIRATIONS, BUT BE WILLING TO LET THEM GO. I WILL DO SOMETHING WONDERFUL WITH THOSE FIBERS SOME OTHER TIME.

<MomCat> I THINK THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT

<MomCat> WHENEVER WE TRY TO DO ONE OF THE TECHNIQUES WE LEARN IN CLASS

<MomCat> AND IT DOESN'T TURN OUT THE WAY WE EXPECTED

<AliciaG> so don't have any preconceived idea

<MomCat> I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO TRY TO LOOK AT IT FOR ITSELF TO SEE IF THERE IS SOMETHING GOOD THERE THAT IS JUST DIFFERENT

<MomCat> YES, ALICIA, OR DON'T BE AFRAID TO DEVIATE FROM THE PRECONCEIVED IDEA

<MomCat> SOMETIMES WE WOULDN'T GET STARTED WITHOUT THAT IDEA

<MomCat> THE CORAL REEF QUEEN IS DONE IN A CD CASE. THE STARFISH BUTTON, SEAWEED, SHELL AND BACKGROUND PAPER WERE IN THE COLLAGE PACK.

<Vyx> I thought that looked like a shaker card.

MomCat HAS NEVER SEEN A SHAKER CARD - THEY SOUND LIKE TOO MUCH WORK <G>

<MomCat> I WILL BE TEACHING A CLASS ON USING CD CASES AS A BASE FOR STAMPED ART IN THE FUTURE. IT WOULD TAKE TOO LONG TO DISCUSS THE TRICKS, PROBLEMS AND SOLUTIONS, NOW.

<MomCat> I USED SANDPAPER FROM THE HARDWARE STORE TO MAKE THE OCEAN'S SANDY BOTTOM.

<MomCat> I LOVE SANDPAPER FOR OCEAN BOTTOMS, BEACHES AND DESERTS

<MomCat> THE BACKGROUND OF THE BLUE CORAL REEF QUEEN IS A PIECE OF FABRIC.

<alisara> did you add something to the sandpaper? or is it just a very low grit?

<MomCat> THE WAVY LINES AREN'T THERE TO THE NAKED EYE., BUT I COULDN'T GET IT TO SCAN WITHOUT THEM.

<MomCat> NO, IT'S JUST A SORT OF MEDIUM COARSE GRIT, SELECTED AS MUCH FOR THE COLOR AS ANY THING ELSE

<MomCat> I GLUED THE FABRIC TO A PIECE OF PLAIN WHITE CARDSTOCK AND LET IT DRY OVERNIGHT. IN THIS PIECE THE LAYERS PICK UP THE COLORS IN THE FABRIC.

<christiesobsession> where can i see this sample you are talking about?

<deb> http://www.dm.net/~cak/crqueens/

<alisara> Thx. I'm slow here --so... this is done ina cd case so it looks like it's behind acetate or something?

<MomCat> THE ONE ON THE TOP IS DONE IN A cd CASE

<phyl> say something someone

<phyl> oh hi mom

<phyl> sorry i am late

<AliciaG> I was talking phyl's ear off

<MomCat> IT'S DONE ON 3 LAYERS

<phyl> lol

<alisara> I love it!

<MomCat> THE BACKGROUND IS AGAINST THE BACK OF THE CASE

<MomCat> THE MERMAID AND SAND ARE IN THE MIDDLE

<AliciaG> that is neat momcat!

<phyl> do we have a url

<phyl> please?

<MomCat> AND THE BROKEN SHELL IS RIGHT UP AGAINST THE FROM OF THE CASE

<MomCat> http://www.dm.net/~cak/crqueens/

<MomCat> THANKS

<MomCat> FROM = FRONT

<alisara> did you talk about the sea weed? I kept getting kicked off

<stubby> all work inside case, mom?

<MomCat> NO i DIDN'T, ALISARA

<MomCat> THE SEA WEED IS PLASTIC STUFF FROM THE COLLAGE PACK

<MomCat> I HAD TROUBLE FIGURING OUT HOW I WANTED TO PLACE THE SEA WEED ON THE LEFT

<MomCat> THEN I REALIZED THAT IF I TURNED IT THE WAY IT IS NOW, I HAD AN OVAL COMPOSITION

<MomCat> IF YOU LOOK AT THE CURVE OF THE 2 PIECES OF WEED, THE SHELL, MERMAID AND STARFISH

<MomCat> THEY FORM A COHESIVE OVAL PATTEREN

<MomCat> PATTERN

<alisara> do you go for something like that to begin with i.e. composition, or do you just know when it looks pleaseing?

<MomCat> YES, STUBBY, IT'S ALL INSIDE THE CASE, THOUGH SOMETIMES THERE WILL BE PIECES ON THE OUTSIDE, FRONT OF THE CASE

<MomCat> ALISARA, I DON'T DO IT FROM THE BEGINNING

<MomCat> AND OFTEN I DON'T EVEN NOTICE IT

<MomCat> THE MAIN RULE OF THUMB I USE FOR COMPOSITION IS THAT THE COMPOSITION SHOULD LOOK BALANCED....

<MomCat> NO MATTER WHICH ANGLE YOU VIEW IT FROM

<MomCat> YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TURN IT ON THE SIDE OR UPSIDE DOWN AND NOT HAVE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER LOOK OUT-OF-BALANCE

<stubby> never thought of that

<alisara> i agree it has to be balanced --kinda feng shui?-- it feels...disturbing if it isn't, but sometimes I like to place things where you wouldn't expect them

<phyl> so do I then i lose them

<MomCat> EACH COMPOSITION HAS TO FEEL GOOD TO YOU IMO

<MomCat> SOMETIMES YOU MAY WANT IT "UNBALANCED" TO EMPHASIZE SOME ELEMENT OF THE WHOLE

<MomCat> THE BACKGROUND OF THE BLUE CORAL REEF QUEEN IS A PIECE OF FABRIC. THE WAVY LINES AREN'T THERE TO THE NAKED EYE., BUT I COULDN'T GET IT TO SCAN WITHOUT THEM.I GLUED THE FABRIC TO A PIECE OF PLAIN WHITE CARDSTOCK AND LET IT DRY OVERNIGHT. IN THIS PIECE THE LAYERS PICK UP THE COLORS IN THE FABRIC.

<MomCat> THIS ONE WAS SO SIMPLE AND HAS GOTTEN A FAIR AMOUNT OF ATTENTION

<MomCat> I LUCKED OUT IN HAVING CARDSTOCK THAT MATCHED THE COLORS OF THE FABRIC

<alisara> the flowers, shells and fish are very nice

<alisara> pleasing composition too

<MomCat> YES, AND IT'S ALL ONE PIECE OF FABRIC

<phyl> what kind of glue did you use, Mom

<phyl> on the fabric that is

<MomCat> BUT CUTTING ALONG THE EDGES OF SOME OF THE OBJECTS AND SLIPPING THE MERMAID UNDER THEM GAVE IT DEPTH

<MomCat> PLAIN WHITE GLUE, PHYL

<phyl> thanks

<MomCat> YW

<alisara> oh you're right about the depth --i never even tho't about it!

<alisara> So playing is important!

<MomCat> YES

<stubby> what did you use to pop out images silicon glue or pop dots?

<MomCat> PLAYING IS IMPORTANT

<MomCat> THEY AREN'T POPPED OUT AT ALL

<stubby> they are flat?????

<MomCat> I JUST CUT AROUND THE EDGES OF THE IMAGES AND TUCKED THE QUEEN UNDR

<MomCat> YEP, FLAT

<phyl> wow the sea shell looks three dimentional

<stubby> wow, look dimentional

<MomCat> THE CREDIT FOR THAT DIMENTIONAL LOOK BELONGS TO THE ARTIST WHO DESIGNED THE FABRIC

<MomCat> BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY PUT IT TO GOOD USE

<MomCat> AND THAT BRINGS UP A COPYRIGHT ISSUE THAT IS SORT OF UNIQUE TO COLLAGE

<phyl> oh oh

<MomCat> I BOUGHT THAT PIECE OF FABRIC SO IF I WANTED TO USE IT IN SOMETHING TO SELL

<MomCat> THAT IS RIGHT AND FAIR

<MomCat> BUT REPRODUCING MY COMPOSITION WITH THAT FABRIC IN IT AND SELLING IT WOULD NOT BE RIGHT IMO

<MomCat> I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD BE LEGAL TO REPRODUCE IT - BUT IT WOULD NOT FEEL RIGHT

<alisara> so One Of a Kind, is okay, but copies are not?

<MomCat> I THINK SO

<alisara> that makes sense

<phyl> so even if you are making paper copies of fabric that is a no no

<cak> kinda like if you use up what you bought, it's fair use

<MomCat> I THINK THINGS LIKE THE FAVRIC SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE ANGEL COMPANY STAMPS

<MomCat> YES, CAK

<alisara> what about magazine pictures? i've always wondered about that...

<MomCat> I KNOW THIS HAS COME UP BEFORE ABOUT MAGAZINES

<alisara> don't mean to get you off track

<MomCat> IF YOU PAID FOR THE MAGAZINE PICTURE THEN YOU CAN USE IT

<MomCat> BUT MAKING COPIES OF IT TO MAKE MORE THAN ONE COLLAGE FOR SALE WOULD BE WRONG

<phyl> hmmm very interesting

<JonaFromGermany> MomCat is that a cover for CD on the page?

<MomCat> WITH THE GOSSAMER CORAL QUEEN, I THOUGHT SHE WOULD SHOW UP BETTER IF I LEFT HER ON THE LIGHT PAPER SHE WAS STAMPED ON AND <G> I WAS TIRED OF CUTTING OUT ALL THOSE HAIR WISPS.

<MomCat> JONA YES

deb waves to Christa

<alisara> i hear ya

<JonaFromGermany> hi all

<phyl> hi jona welcome back

<MomCat> PUTTING THE EXOTIC PAPER AGAINST CARDSTOCK THE SAME COLOR AS THE DARK STRIPES, CAUSES THE LIGHT STRIPES TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION OF RIPPLES IN THE WATER.

<MomCat> USUALLY YOU PUT THINGS AGAINST CONTRASTING COLORS

<JonaFromGermany> I have to leave for school in about 45 min

<MomCat> BUT IT THIS CASE IT WORKS BEST AGAINST A MATCHING COLOR

<MomCat> THE MAP TURTLE CARD IS ONE THAT I MADE FOR EVO'S "MANY THANGS CHALLENGE" http://www.evolving-images.com/chalcards.htm THERE IS A TYPE OF TURTLE COMMONLY CALLED A MAP TURTLE, SO OFCOURSE I =HAD= TO STAMP A TURTLE ON A MAP.

<alisara> i like the way you cut around the mermaid; never tho't of that. I get bogged down in details like hair wisps

<MomCat> DEB, IS THERE ANYTHING COMING UP AFTER THIS CLASS

<deb> nope

<MomCat> SO WE CAN GO OVER?

<deb> you are closing out the opening day diane

<deb> sure

<deb> go for it

<MomCat> YES, IN THIS CASE HAVING THE MERMAID IN THE OVAL "SPOTLIGHTS" HER

<alisara> i'll have to remember that. :-)

<MomCat> I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO FIND A MAP IN AN AD IN AN OLD AUTO CLUB GUIDE THAT HAD LINES WHICH BLENDED WITH THE LINES OF THE TURTLE'S SHELL AND EMBOSSED THE TURTLE IN A COLOR CLOSE TO ONE ON THE MAP.I FOUND A PHOTOGRAPH OF WOOD PANELING IN A VOGUE AD. I THINK THE OVER-ALL EFFECT IS OF AN OLD, WEATHERED POSTER ON A WALL.

<alisara> i love the wood!

<MomCat> I LOVE VOGUE. I HAVE A SUBSCRIPTION JUST SO I CAN TAKE IT APART FOR COLLAGE

<alisara> i've been looking thru old Nat'l Geographics

<MomCat> ANOTHER SORT OF UNUSAL MAGAZINE FOR COLLAGE IS TIME (AND PROBABLY ALSO NEWSWEEK)

<MomCat> THEY HAVE SOME GREAT ADVERTISEMENTS IN THEM

<MomCat> THE DARK GREEN CARDSTOCK PICKS UP THE COLOR IN THE TURTLE AND THE ROADS ON THE MAP. EVO'S SCAN SHOWS THAT BETER SO BE SURE TO LOOK AT IT LATER.

<christiesobsession> I have found great things in old books I have gotten at garage sales...Ihave a whole set of photography books that have some wonderful pictures in them...

<MomCat> THE SPHINX AND THE "GATE" ARE FROM THE APPALOOSA ART STAMPS' EGYPT'S MYSTERY PLATE. http://www.AAsimagick.com/details.asp?product_id=PB006 YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT THAT NOW, SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THE "GATE" IS ACTUALLY THE OUTER PART OF A LARGE STAMP.

<MomCat> http://www.AAsimagick.com/details.asp?product_id=PB006

<MomCat> THAT IS WHERE THE AAS STAMP IS

<MomCat> THE SPHINX WAS STAMPED ON ASTROPARCHE TO GIVE THE LOOK OF WEATHERED STONE,

<MomCat> THEN CUT OUT AND PLACED SO THAT LIKE THE BLUE QUEEN IT "INTERACTS" WITH ITS SURRONDINGS.

<MomCat> THAT IS A PICTURE OF MORROCAN SAND DUNES FROM A TRAVEL AD.

<MomCat> THE BLUE AND MAROON CARD STOCK PICK COLORS FROM THE SKY AND SHADOWS IN THE PICTURE.

<alisara> do you just have all these components stashed away and remember that you have what you need or do you go on a mission to find what you need?

<MomCat> IN THE SPHINX AND THE BLUE CORAL QUEEN PIECES, THE LAYERING IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT "UNIFIES" THE COMPOSITION

<MomCat> A BIT OF BOTH, ALISARA

<MomCat> USUALLY I WOULD TAKE SOME THING LIKE THE TURTLE STAMPED ON THE MAP AND THEN LOOK FOR THE BACKGROUND

<MomCat> NOT KNOWING UNTIL I FOUND IT WHAT I WOULD USE

<MomCat> OR WITH THE MERMAIDS, i STAMPED AND EMBOSSED SEVERAL OF HER IN DIFFERENT COLORS

<MomCat> AND THEN LOOKED THROUGH THE COLLAGE PACK TO SEE WHAT TO USE

<Vyx> gotta go sleep, thanks for class MomCat!

<alisara> so you make up your own collage packs? or are you referring to pkgs for purchase (i missed a bit of the class)

<Vyx> bye!

[the logger was dropped at this point and was not able to return]

Log file closed at 6/21/02 11:58:04 PM