<Jambalaya> DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR MUSE IS??????

<BlackCats> resting after a days work

<cak> asleep I think

<cak> or buried under all the paper I've gathered

<BlackCats> lol

<Jambalaya> ok, lets try that a different way,

<Jambalaya> when you decide to stamp, do you always have your muse with you? or do you sometimes feel she's abandoned you?

<joy> lordy no, somethines I think she's blindfolded

<BlackCats> sometimes mine has gone off partying

<cak> I do it the wrong way around--I only stamp if my muse tells me what I'm doing. I don't feed her by playing without her beating me into it

<Jambalaya> or do you know if you even have a muse?

<BlackCats> at those times it's hard to come up with good ideas

<Stampverb> can we back up a minute?

<Jambalaya> yes verb?

<Stampverb> I never know what this muse stuff is all about, really

<Jambalaya> aha!

<Stampverb> is it what generates new ideas (aka creativity)?

<Stampverb> or is it what propels you to the work table (opposite of procrastination)?

<Jambalaya> i think the term muse may mean different things to different people

<Stampverb> Is it the artist's analogue of writer's block?

<Jambalaya> to me, it means the creativity comes out, and the art looks good

<Jambalaya> yes, i think so

<BlackCats> for me my muse is the source of my inspiration, creativity

<Stampverb> ok

<BlackCats> and if I have to make a card on the spur of the moment when my muse is absent, it just doesn't come out right

<Stampverb> so BC, your Muse could be ok, lots of creativity happening, but the technique could be new to you so the result may not be "perfect?"

<BlackCats> yes

<Stampverb> k

<BlackCats> first attemps at a new technique are seldom perfect

<Stampverb> tell me!

<Jambalaya> ya but when it clicks, is when the muse took over, you see?

<Stampverb> thanks for the definitions

<cak> so am I the only who gets a perfect result the first time and never again?

<BlackCats> exactly, jam

<BlackCats> lol, cak

<Jambalaya> lol, cak

<BlackCats> sometimes it goes that way with me too

<cak> whew!

<Jambalaya> hey mars and joy, this is a discussion class, jump in

<Jambalaya> ya cak, that happens to everyone

<joy> maybe your not meant to do it exactly the same twice

<Jambalaya> i think i've found the key to bringing my muse out of hiding

<marsmanni> is there one muse for all mediums?

<BlackCats> when I start just pulling things out and seemingly randomly putting things together I think that is my muse at work

<cak> you'd better tell Jamba

<Jambalaya> i don't know if this will work for anyone else, but it seems to be my key

<cak> I think so mars

<Stampverb> cak, it never happens here, alas

<BlackCats> yeah, I think so too, mars

<Jambalaya> let go of perfectionism (a lesson i learned from flylady) and just do it

<Stampverb> offer it okra, Jam?

<BlackCats> exactly, jam

<BlackCats> just jump in and let your muse take over control

<cak> so go for "good enough" (and don't assume that good enough is perfect)

<joy> I think the more you think the worse it comes out

<Jambalaya> and if it doesn't look right, it's not finished<g>

<BlackCats> yep

<Jambalaya> right

<Jambalaya> art and perfectionism aren't good buddies

<joy> well you are your own worst critic

<Jambalaya> well, thats not always true joy

<marsmanni> amen to that

<Jambalaya> personally i think picasso was a fruitcake

<BlackCats> lol

<BlackCats> what you like may be contrary to the tastes of others

<marsmanni> so what's the relationship betw hard work and muse?

<joy> well art is different to each person

<Jambalaya> hmmmm

<joy> but we criticise our own work the most

<BlackCats> yes

<Jambalaya> if it's hard work you should be getting paid/ as opposed to having fun

<marsmanni> maybe i mean consistent work

<cak> to me, mars, work hones your skills so they can be available to you and your muse

<marsmanni> work is practice then?

<Jambalaya> hmmm, ya

<joy> the learning curve?

<BlackCats> yes, for me it is

<marsmanni> refining? honing?

<cak> and developing a repetory of skills to draw on

<cak> (orhowever you spell it)

<BlackCats> I keep meaning to start a practice journal

* Jambalaya hands cak the r she dropped

<BlackCats> that's prolly a good way to hone your skills

<marsmanni> do you need the muse to practice?

<Jambalaya> a lot of folks use altered books as an art journal

<joy> I always keep the first thing I make of a new technique, what to know why?

<Jambalaya> ok, why?

<joy> then I can look back on it and see how much better I have gotten at that technique

<BlackCats> and you can then look back and see the progression from the first attempt at a new technique to the point where you 'get' it just so

<cak> I don't think you do need the muse to practice, like honing your playing skills by practicing scales

<joy> yes, you must know the basics before you can create your won "music"

<marsmanni> i have a confession to make

<BlackCats> no, not to practice a new technique

<joy> won=own

<BlackCats> yes, mars?

<cak> oooo, confession time! (tell, tell!)

<marsmanni> i haveb't had a muse since 1998

<marsmanni> cries

<BlackCats> lol, I bet you're just not paying attention to her

<Stampverb> what does that mean, mars?

<Jambalaya> mars your muse exists, you're just not letting her come out and play

<cak> ouch--do you feel abandoned or free?

<marsmanni> just what i said

<Stampverb> you haven't touched ink to paper, or just not feeling inspired?

<marsmanni> oh i make stuff but it's dead

<BlackCats> ah, so you need to have some strictly play sessions

<cak> to you or to other also?

<cak> (sorry, I'm eating medicinal ice cream)

<marsmanni> i don't know about to others or not--pass me that ice cream

<Jambalaya> maybe you aren't giving it the time , you have to let yourself relax, and play with no end purpose sometimes

<BlackCats> just start grabbing stuff and putting them together on big sheets of kraft paper or cheap watercolor paper

<BlackCats> don't think about it at all, just play

<marsmanni> have you had this happen to you?

<joy> you really need to stop thinking

<Jambalaya> sure

<BlackCats> sometimes, mars

<marsmanni> for how long?

<BlackCats> sometimes for months

<cak> yes, all the time mars

<BlackCats> but then I'll realize how long it's been since I did any art

<BlackCats> and I have a play session

<BlackCats> that usually gets me to coming up with ideas

<joy> have you ever taken an art class mars? like at these conventions

<marsmanni> oh yes

<Jambalaya> mars, before your muse went on strike, what was your favorite technique?

<marsmanni> just finihsed a drawing class last week

<marsmanni> it left when i was writing poetry.

<joy> so you can draw and you can write poetry- that's better then I can do

<joy> those are gifts

<marsmanni> well, i didin't mean to hijack this discussion, so what about others

<cak> it's not hijacking, you're our case study! (that's a good thing, but tell us if it gets too rough)

<BlackCats> maybe you need to pull stuff out and make something that conveys what your poem is about in colors and images

<joy> sucks I liked being on a muse hunt

<Jambalaya> well, if it helps anyone, i've found what works best for me is just start something, and go with it

<cak> how do you decide what to do though Jamba?

<marsmanni> sometimes i find a work of art and try to reinterpret it

<marsmanni> in a different medium

<marsmanni> like a bead work in color, etc

<marsmanni> or recreate a glass work in color pencil

<Jambalaya> well, usually i have stuff i have to get done by a certain deadline, i guess that helps some too

<cak> that sounds like fun

<marsmanni> or let the mad scientist take over and start mixing stuff

<joy> I heard a lady at the Ga convention talking about remaking an exact card

<cak> (not the deadline)

<marsmanni> epoxy. caulk glitter etc

<BlackCats> lol

<joy> she said if you didn't put something from you in it even if you copied it exactly it would never look right to you

<cak> the age-old technique of copying to learn??

<marsmanni> i think it's great

<marsmanni> Jonathon talbot does that

<Jambalaya> thats a good point joy

<marsmanni> uses designs from master's painting for composition

<marsmanni> he said all artists stand on the shoulders of all that have come before

<cak> oh! I haven't heard of that before--very cool

<BlackCats> hi christie

<marsmanni> we all add to the ball of foil

<Kriztina> oh funny christie, i was just talking about you today

<ChristieW> hello.

<BlackCats> ltns christie

<Kriztina> well actually i went to the stamp store , and sheila asked if id heard from you

<Jambalaya> lea everse used to hang out in here a lot, and something she said that i quote her on all the time is that there is truly nothing new under the sun, you just have to make it your own

<marsmanni> it's synergy

<Jambalaya> hi ChristieW

<ChristieW> wow that's weird isn't it Kriz!

<BlackCats> brb

<joy> ok define synergy

<ChristieW> hello jambalaya

<Kriztina> do you still have samples at the store christie?

<cak> that's great advise to take to heart too

<cak> (kinda takes the pressure off to CREATE)

<ChristieW> I'm sure I do

<marsmanni> when you add thing together and they make more than the sum of their parts due to their respective charactericts

<joy> ty

<marsmanni> like jambalaya is a food synergy

<Stampverb> synergy.... 2 plus 2 = 5

<Jambalaya> am not

<marsmanni> r 2

<cak> watch out mars--she may be getting the crawfish out

<marsmanni> i got tabasco, baby

<Jambalaya> lol

<Stampverb> in a squirt gun?

<cak> I wonder if you can become deaf to your muse or at least on a conscious level?

<BlackCats> I think so

<Jambalaya> mars, that analagy might not make sense to someone who's never eaten jambalaya

<marsmanni> sorry

<marsmanni> gumbo?

<BlackCats> you have to pay attention to your muse or she gets bored and goes off in search of fun

<Jambalaya> lemme simplify it

<cak> (she may be talking to you and influencing you, but you're just not aware of the talk)

<joy> oh BC, I like that

<BlackCats> lol

<BlackCats> I really think that's true

<Jambalaya> rice is good, and chicken is good, and tomatoes are good, but mix the 3 and it's ambrosia

<cak> see, now when I pay attention to my muse she takes off. I guess she's shy

<cak> but when we work in tandom--that's when it feels great

<BlackCats> hmmm, maybe you need to play more so she get more comfy

<Jambalaya> i met caks muse, she's very shy, but has a great talent she tries to keep to herself

<marsmanni> there's this trick

<marsmanni> where you use your non-dominant hand to bring out the inner child

<BlackCats> or do something just for you and not cuz it's a deadline or a class project, etc

<marsmanni> so could you use a non-dmonant techniuqu?

<joy> we did that in Fred Mullets class mars

<cak> I think that's a good idea mars

<cak> tell joy--how did it work?

<marsmanni> like finger paint backgrounds?

<joy> it was Wonderful cak

<marsmanni> tell tell

<joy> we were trying to create chaos

<joy> and you can't do that if you think

<joy> so we used our other hand- no problem

<Jambalaya> heh, my house is evidence that i'm good at chaos<g>

<BlackCats> lol

<cak> lol (you and me Jamba, you and me)

<joy> his class is creating chaos and then honing in on one image and making it stand out

<marsmanni> explain more about the one image

<joy> the very first one that you stamp like in a school of fish

<joy> it will be the darker one

<marsmanni> then you re work it?

<joy> in the classes case we went back in with a stamp positioner and highlighted it

<cak> so you created a focal point in the chaos?

<joy> yes, exactly

<cak> I could see where you could also "copy" the work and see where that leads too

<marsmanni> can i ask a question about starting an art work?

<cak> of course!

<BlackCats> sure

<marsmanni> ok this might be a little long

<Jambalaya> anyone ever read drawing from the right side of your brain?

<cak> (maybe it'll encourage me to start something too)

<joy> the time my muse shined brightest I remember being giving a number of things and told to stamp, expore, creat and Not think

<marsmanni> when you start a painting you have a drawing usually

<marsmanni> when you start a collage, composition IS the design

<marsmanni> i can never get started on a college becauase i'm usualy doing abstract work not a picture

<marsmanni> it's like i need a design or something

<marsmanni> if i just start in, it looks like a monkey did it

<Jambalaya> well, mars, collage isn't for everyone, maybe your muse secretly wishes for more order

<Stampverb> the same basic design principles that make a good painting will also guide your collage design

<cak> (you too? glad I have company)

<marsmanni> no shit sherlock

<joy> I think collage scares a lot of people

<BlackCats> I can't do collage very well

<marsmanni> don't you do alot of collage jam?

<BlackCats> I think mainly cuz I just don't care for them and don't 'get' it

<Jambalaya> i went through a collage phase, it's not really my thing

<marsmanni> oh

<Stampverb> I find it helps to just say a few words to myself about the feeling I want the finished thing to elicit -- calm? exciting? mysterious?

<Kriztina> mars, get back to me in late september, i'm taking a solving the composition conundrum with claudine helmuth class

<joy> I think the best collages I see are ones that do use certain principles

<marsmanni> Kriz i am so jealous!!! you lucky chicka'

<joy> like you can't just slap something in the middle of a paper and have it not connected to something else

<Kriztina> go find her book mars, collage discovery workshop, it took a bit of the mystery out of it for me

<marsmanni> i have it

<Kriztina> and the compostion chapter hasnt helped?

<marsmanni> hey Jam--my sherlock comment was a wry comment on me, i think it maybe soundy bitchy and i didn't mean that

<marsmanni> *slaps self*

<Jambalaya> lol, i know

<Jambalaya> but goes to show my statement mighta hit a nerve

<marsmanni> oh yes

<Jambalaya> imho, your muse will hide if you insist on doing stuff she doesn't like<g>

<ChristieW> have to go for now, see you again soon ladies :)

<Jambalaya> examine your motives

<Jambalaya> bye ChristieW

<Kriztina> night christie

<joy> need a new muse wanted sign

<marsmanni> nigh CW

<cak> Night Christie

<BlackCats> hite christie

<joy> nite

<cak> lol joy--maybe that'll bring her out. If you decorate it nicely

<joy> as long as it isn't collaged, lol

<BlackCats> lol

<cak> lol

<marsmanni> post a personal on Single Muses

<cak> lol

<Jambalaya> oh and another small point about my muse, she hates disorganization

<cak> (just be sure you aren't the rebound artist)

<marsmanni> so you remedied this how?

<joy> better not come here then

<Jambalaya> sometimes she makes me stop and clear off a whole foot of my workspace, cuz she can't breathe in clutter

<marsmanni> not your whole studio?

<Jambalaya> not usually

<Jambalaya> but it's happened<g>

<BlackCats> lol, that's a hopeless dream, mars

<joy> dang my muse must be making my mess

<marsmanni> blame her

<Stampverb> that verges on AAM, mars--Art Avoidance Mode <g>

<marsmanni> i can't decide which it is AAM or Jam

<marsmanni> experience

<Stampverb> the era in which I felt most comfortable with my art was when I had a mix of production work (volume, deadlines, repetitive stuff) and commission work that always panicked me--while doing the production stuff I'd sort of work out the issues with the more "arty" thing looming over me

<Kriztina> yah know, something i think i'm learning, if theres inner turmoil stuff in your head, creating art isnt the easiest thing

<Stampverb> so trye Kriz

<marsmanni> please say more

<Stampverb> true

<Jambalaya> true enough

<BlackCats> right, or if you are depressed or very sad about something

<joy> but on the other hand sometimes when your in turmoil making art makes you feel good

<marsmanni> calling dr. freud

<Kriztina> depression, guilt, feeligns of self-loathing, isnt the grounds for creativity to run wild

<Stampverb> or being distracted by other life stuffs in general

<Kriztina> and those little voices creep it when you are making art , saying oh you big fat loser this sucks

<Jambalaya> well, art won't solve any problems for you, but it can give you time to think

<Jambalaya> huh, kriz found an anti-muse

<joy> I don't agree Jam, I think art is very theraputic

<marsmanni> ???

<Kriztina> and i bet 10 outta 10 times if you show that piece of art to someone else, they would not thing it sucks

<cak> I guess I always think of art as another way to expressing what you're thinking about

<BlackCats> yep, her inner critic (who is almost sure to be wrong)

<Stampverb> ok, I am off to post an A.P.B. for my muse--I owe some samples to a vendor and must do them tomorrow! Niters... good discussion

<BlackCats> nite verb

<cak> night SV

<marsmanni> bye

<Stampverb> nite

<joy> nite verb

<Jambalaya> nite verb

<Kriztina> night verb

<marsmanni> But i was reading somewhere that one's inner critic had the job of protecting you and usually has a message

<marsmanni> what do u think?

<Jambalaya> hmmm, maybe to a point

<BlackCats> yeah, your inner critic can go too far and stiffle your creativity

<cak> but unchecked I think protecting turns into inprisoning

<Jambalaya> but i think some people let the negative take over

<Kriztina> thats what i was trying to think of ty bc

<marsmanni> is the inner critic another aspect of the Muse?

<BlackCats> yw kriz

<joy> that's what I meant by your own worst critic

<marsmanni> like the Dark Side muse?

<BlackCats> I don't think so, mars

<Jambalaya> i don't either

<BlackCats> I think it's your inner doubts speaking

<Jambalaya> if you have deep seated problems, art won't solve them for you

<marsmanni> amen, sister

<marsmanni> i worked hard to get this neurotic

<Jambalaya> lol

<BlackCats> but art may be a way of bringing your feelings to the surface, of expressing yourself

<cak> I guess I always think of the Muse as not being critical (in the non-examining sense) and you need your inner critic to balance

<joy> I think it can be an outlet for you in combination with other things may help you

<marsmanni> drugs, perhaps

<Jambalaya> hmmm, i think more of muse as the guide to the beauty

<cak> lol

<marsmanni> lots of drug

<marsmanni> that's lovely phrase!

<Jambalaya> ty

<BlackCats> good way of putting it, jam

<joy> I have to go , nite all

<BlackCats> nite joy

<BlackCats> sweet dreams

<cak> lol--and I think of her as a playmate

<marsmanni> night, joy

<Jambalaya> sweet dreams joy, drive careful

<cak> Night joy!

<Jambalaya> i'd kill myself if i had to get up at 4 am to go to work

<marsmanni> ack!!!

<BlackCats> really!

<Jambalaya> and she has an hour drive to boot

<marsmanni> hey i want to tell you about something

<cak> 4 am???? I'd be more likely to see it at the end of the day not the beginning

<marsmanni> just visited the American Visionary ARt Museum in Baltimore

<BlackCats> uh huh

<marsmanni> you have to go

<Jambalaya> you and me cak

<Jambalaya> baltimore??

<marsmanni> yes

<marsmanni> I cried

<Jambalaya> not around the corner<g>

<marsmanni> it was so powerful

<marsmanni> it's like the 3rd best museum in the whole world

<cak> lots of cool stuff?

<Jambalaya> tell us more

<marsmanni> it was a 6 hour drive for me

<marsmanni> www.avam.org

<marsmanni> Current exhibit is "Holy H2O"

<marsmanni> works about the spirituality of water and water in art

<cak> that would be very powerful

<marsmanni> Amazing vodou art, paintings collage assemblage sculpture

<marsmanni> all kinds all with water as theme

<marsmanni> it was so moving to think all these unknowns and their private worlds of art

<marsmanni> it was all in their heads and now finally we get to be blessed by it

<marsmanni> the whole outside of the building is a mosaic!!!

<cak> cool

<marsmanni> there is a magazine about outsider art called "Raw Vision"

<marsmanni> these people not only have muse, they are plugged directly into The Outlet

<cak> that sounds wonderful

<marsmanni> this one guy did spirit paintings that the Lord sent him and he interpreted the message through a bottle of holy water

<cak> interesting

<marsmanni> another woman painted on doors after having a divine dream

<Jambalaya> shane the website doesn't really show any of the art

<cak> of course this brings up the question--do some Muses need to work under an alias? Does the artist need to put the responsibility on another source?

<Jambalaya> shame

<marsmanni> well i'm going to call it a night. I appreciate everyone's comments, and the discussion

<cak> thanks to you!

<Jambalaya> it was a great discussion

<Kriztina> night mars

<Jambalaya> thanks for coming mars

<cak> will you be joining us more?

<marsmanni> Jam--you always have the most thoughtful comments!! everyone has been very nice and i apologize for hijacking the thread

<marsmanni> Buenos noches, chickas!

<Jambalaya> not at all

<Jambalaya> that was the idea

Log file closed at: 4/2/05 10:22:06 PM