<Janet> class page is here: http://janet.margul.com/color/

* Jambalaya tosses the caps to Janet

<Janet> THERE. I PUT THE CLASS PAGE RIGHT AFTER THE BREAKER BARS

<Janet> AND DON'T SNEAK AHEAD<G>

<Janet> FIRST TELL PATTY, INSTEAD OF A COLOR WHEEL (ZZZZZZ) WHAT THREE ASPECTS OF A COLOR ARE WE CONCENTRATING ON?

<fab> Saturation

<Jambalaya> value, saturation, and hue

<Janet> YAY FAB!

<fab> Value

<Janet> YAY JAMS!

<cak> value, hue and saturation (we did saturation last week some)

<Janet> YEAH, WE DID SATURATION SOME LAST WEEK

<Patty> oh no.............I hate that ping timeout

<fab> I did play with the tools in The Photoshop to look at them

<Janet> PATTY, WE'LL GO BACK TO SATURATION PROBABLY NEXT WEEK, BUT BASICALLY IT'S HOW PURE OR GRAY A COLOR IS

<Jambalaya> http://janet.margul.com/color/

<Janet> YAY FAB!

<Janet> DID THAT HELP YOU "GET" THE CONCEPTS AND VOCABULARY?

<fab> The tools were fairly easy to access and yes it helps to see it happen

<Patty> the page helps

<Julie> I tried but I couldn't figure out how to work my Photoshop :(

<Jambalaya> http://janet.margul.com/color/

<Janet> LOL JULIE. MOST OF THIS IS UHHH UNDER COLOR MODES?

<Janet> HEYA KRIZ

<fab> Julie, what version of Photoshop are you using?

<Janet> (I DID GO LOOKING FOR KRIZ LAST NIGHT, BUT SHE WASN'T IN TRIVIA GRILL)

<Julie> it's just the Photoshop Deluxe home version--a mini of the big thing

<Kriztina> but i was on the undernet and i kept doing /whois thejanet : )

<fab> Is it Version 20??

<Janet> THAT WAS ME

<Janet> VERB IS BACK! WE CAN MOVE ON NOW :)

<Julie> not sure, fab

<Stampverb> lol

<Jambalaya> http://janet.margul.com/color/

<fab> Some of the earlier ones may not have the tool

<Stampverb> puter crashed

<Janet> I GOT THE CS VERSION AND i DON'T REALLY KNOW IT WELL YET

<fab> I think it was in the photo tools

<Janet> I DID FIX UP THE PICS ON THE PAGE TO BE BETTAH

<Julie> they are very nice Janet!

<Janet> PATTY, ARE YOU SOLID ENOUGH TO CONCENTRATE ON VALUE TONIGHT?

<Janet> YOU WILL HAVE TO CATCH UP ON THE HOMEWORK<G>

* Janet SNICKERS

<Patty> go for it...............

<Janet> RATHER THAN TELL YOU WHAT VALUE IS (THE BRIGHTNESS OR DARKNESS OF A COLOR) (ZZZZ) I PLAYED AND HAVE A PAGE TO SHOW YOU...

<Patty> great

<Janet> CLICK THE LINK NEXT TO JUNE 14

* Janet HAS A VERY LOW ZZZ TOLERANCE TONIGHT<G>

<Janet> LOOK THROUGH THE VALUE IS PAGE, THEN POP BACK IN HERE AND LET'S TALK ABOUT IT

<Janet> YOU SHOULD BE ON http://janet.margul.com/color/valueis.html

<Janet> (BUT DON'T MOVE ON YET)

<fab> I'm back, nice work

<cak> too late

<cak> (very cool)

* Janet SNAPS THE WET NOODLE AT CAK

<Janet> COOL. I HAD FUN.<G>

<fab> What program did you do these in?

<Janet> WHAT I WANTED TO ILLUSTRATE HERE IS THAT CHANGING YOUR VALUES CAN COMMUNICATE A MESSAGE ALL ON ITS OWN

<Janet> THESE WERE DONE IN FIREWORKS, WHICH IS A MACROMEDIA PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY FOR WEB GRAPHICS

<cak> our eyes are very sensitive to value, aren't they?

<Janet> THEY ARE!

<cak> or perhaps I should say differences in value

<Jambalaya> http://janet.margul.com/color/valueis.html

<Janet> AND EVEN THO I JUMBLED ALL THOSE ON ONE PAGE, WE CAN SEPARATE EACH AND SEE HOW EACH COMMUNICATES

<Janet> YOU CAN SEE WITH THE VERY FIRST ONE, THAT WHEN YOU TURN DOWN YOUR VALUES (MOVE THE COLORS OFF FROM THE CENTER) AND LOWER YOUR CONTRAST, YOU SPEAK WITH A SOFTER VOICE

<Janet> YOU CAN TRANSLATE THAT IN YOUR COMPOSITIONS BY MAKING YOUR NON-FOCAL IMAGES OF LESSER VALUE THAN THE MAIN IMAGE

<Janet> SEE HOW THAT WORKS?

<Janet> WHEN YOU UP YOUR CONTRAST, THINGS POP OUT AT YOU

<cak> yeah, you don't want to divide the focus too much?

<Janet> CAN YOU SEE HOW YOU CAN TRANSLATE THESE INTO WAYS TO WORK WITH YOUR COLORS TO CONTROL YOUR COMPOSITIONS?

<Janet> YEAH, CAK. FOR SURE.

<Julie> can I think of this as using a versamark pad vs black pad?

<Janet> SURE!

<Janet> THAT'S A GOOD ILLUSTRATION, JULIE

<Janet> OR USING THE DISTRESS INK ALMOST BLACK VS YOUR DOCUMENT INK

<cak> so the same value for different hues (colors) will not have the same contrast as even the same color with different value?

<Janet> YES!!

<Janet> SEE THE ONE SPOT OF COLOR IN THAT WHOLE PAGE? THAT BLUE?

<Janet> THAT BLUE IS THE SAME VALUE AS THE GRAY BACKGROUND

<fab> yes

<Janet> AND IT FADES INTO THE WALL

<cak> yes

<fab> It is so close in value to the grey

<Janet> I THINK, OF OUR THREE ASPECTS, VALUE AND VALUE RELATIONSHIPS ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT

<cak> low contrast can, if one is interested, focus attention very well too (like when a lecturer starts to lower their voice)

<Janet> OH YES! GOOD HONK, CAK.

<cak> (but the "audience" has to be interested)

<Janet> PICTURE A SIGN, ALL BLACK AND WHITE... WITH ONE ELEMENT IN A GRAY. THAT ONE MUTED ELEMENT IS THE ONE THAT WILL CRY FOR YOUR ATTENTION FIRST

<fab> Just for being different?

<Janet> IT'S LIKE A CARD, LOTS OF IMAGES, ALL DONE IN PRIMARY COLORS... THEN ONE ULTRA-REALISTIC ELEMENT, SAY DONE IN MUTED VICTORIAN COLORS.

<Janet> JUST FOR BEING DIFFERENT.

<Janet> THAT'S YOUR HUGE KEY FOR VALUE HERE. VALUE IS RELATIVE.

<cak> humans are very very sensitive to things that break a pattern (even a small one on a card front)

<Janet> AND THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE DIFFERING VALUES IS KEY

<fab> I think the muted victorians in the middle of the primaries would be sort of uncomfortable

<Janet> IT PROBABLY WOULD BE, FAB. BUT IT WOULD SCREAM FOR ATTENTION

<Janet> HEH OR TO BE RESCUED AND PUT SOMEWHERE QUIETER

<cak> lol, I'll say

<fab> True, but I think I would not be happy with this combination.

<Janet> NOW EVERYBODY REPEAT AFTER ME...

<Janet> VALUE IS RELATIVE.

<Stampverb> after me

<fab> Value is Relative

<Patty> Value is relative

<Wanda> value is relative

<cak> value is relative

<Julie> value is relative

* Janet WHOMPS VERB WITH A GRAYSCALE JPG

<Patty> Value is relative

<Janet> VERY GOOD. NOW ALWAYS REMEMBER AND NEVER FORGET THIS

<Stampverb> relatives are valuable

<Janet> LOL DEPENDS ON THE RELATIVE<G>

<Jambalaya> relatives are rarely valuable

* Stampverb bops self

<Janet> PICTURE A PLACE SETTING OF FINE ENGLISH BONE CHINA... A NICE RICE PILAF, SOME ASPARAGUS, A SWIRL OF POLENTA WITH PESTO SAUCE ON TOP... AND A SNICKERS BAR PLACED ON THE RIM OF THE PLATE.

<Janet> NOW WHAT ARE YOU GONNA GRAB OFF THAT PLATE FIRST? EVEN IF YOU DON'T EAT IT.

<Janet> IT'S ALL IN THE RELATIONSHIPS.

<cak> do you think that value is the most powerful focuser of attention (above hue and saturation)?

<fab> That Snickers, of course

<Janet> I DO. I THINK VALUE IS THE MOST POWERFUL, SATURATION NEXT AND HUE THE LEAST

<Jambalaya> well, it's the snickers that doesn't fit, but the only thing i'd eat is the asparagus<g>

<Janet> HEH. SNICKERS GETS DROPPED IN MY PURSE WHILE I EAT THE REST. THEN ME AND MY SNICKERS WILL HAVE SOME QUALITY TIME TOGETHER.

<cak> lol

<fab> In a quiet dark place

<Janet> COOL AND QUIET.

<fab> yup

<Janet> AND IF PERCHANCE SOMEONE ELSE LEFT THEIR SNICKERS BAR, I'D CLEAN THOSE OFF THE TABLE, TOO

* Jambalaya flicks her snickers into janet's purse

<Janet> COOL!

<fab> Or into the freezer!

<Janet> NOW THE NEXT SET OF PAGES, I REALLY WANT Y'ALL TO SHOW SOME SELF-RESTRAINT AND JUST LOOK AT ONE AT A TIME.

<Janet> CLICK "VALUE IS RELATIVE"

<cak> too late

<Janet> WELL, WE KNOW YOU AND SELF-RESTRAINT<G>

<cak> (I looked at 'em all--)

<Janet> (AND ME<G>)

<cak> lol

<Janet> SEE THAT GRAY SQUARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HMMMM PAGE?

<Janet> I SWEAR IT IS A SOLID GRAY SQUARE. FOR REAL.

<Janet> BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE ONE

<Janet> THIS IS MY PROOF THAT VALUE IS RELATIVE.

<Janet> IT DOES LOOK LIKE IT'S LIGHTER ON ONE END THAN THE OTHER, DOESN'T IT?

<fab> It looks lighter against the dark background

<Jambalaya> yes

<Janet> WELL, IF YOU CLICK THE ARROWS ON THE BOTTOM, I JUST CHANGED THE BACKGROUND TO WHITE SO YOU COULD SEE THE GRAY BAR

<Janet> IT FOR SURE IS A SOLID GRAY BAR. SAME COLOR ALL THE WAY ACROSS.

<Janet> THIS ILLUSTRATES A UH WHAT? A PHENOMENA? A PRINCIPLE? A SOMETHING...

<Wanda> wow

<fab> Value is Relative

<Janet> THAT YOUR EYES WILL SEE WHAT ISN'T THERE

<Janet> VALUE IS RELATIVE

<Jambalaya> optical illusion

<Janet> YOUR BRAIN WANTS THE HIGHEST CONTRAST POSSIBLE, ALL THE TIME...

<Janet> HIGHER CONTRAST IS MORE READABLE THAN LOW CONTRAST

<Julie> what a goofy brain :)

<Janet> SO YOUR BRAIN HELPS YOUR EYES OUT HERE

<Janet> NOW YOU CAN USE THIS IN YOUR OWN WORK

<Janet> YOU KNOW THE BRAIN IS GONNA HELP THE EYES OUT

<Janet> SO YOU CAN POP THE CONTRAST IN THE BACKGROUNDS AROUND YOUR IMAGES TO MAKE -THEM- POP OUT

<Janet> YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND LOOK AT THE NEXT ONE

<Janet> SELF-RESTRAINT BEING VASTLY OVERRATED<G>

<cak> lol

<Janet> THE THIRD ONE REALLY SHOWS HOW THE GRAY BAR IS THE SAME, I JUS T PUT THE TWO ON A SPLIT SCREEN

<Janet> AND IN REL3 YOU CAN SEE IT.

<Janet> AND EVEN WHEN YOU CAN SEE IT'S SOLID, IT STILL LOOKS LIGHTER ON THE ONE END

<Janet> CAN YOU SEE HOW YOU CAN USE THIS BRAIN TRICK IN YOUR OWN WORK?

<cak> in the abstract

<Janet> (TIME FOR SOMEONE TO SAY YES<G>)

<cak> (I'd never be able to use it in design, but in fixing a definite YES)

<Janet> WELL, YEAH. BUT KNOWING THE BRAIN WILL COMPENSATE AND ADD CONTRAST TO WHATEVER YOU DO, THIS IS A COOL THING TO KEEP IN MIND.

<fab> I think I use it accidently sometimes

<Janet> FOR SURE, FAB. YOU KNOW WHY??

<Janet> BECAUSE VALUE IS.... RELATIVE!

<Janet> (THIS IS THE PHRASE OF THE NIGHT<G>)

<Janet> CLICK THE LAST ONE AND YOU SEE A BUNCHA GRAY BARS ON BACKGROUNDS

<fab> It is something we use to shade a rounded object too

<Janet> REL4 IS UH OVERKILL<G>

<Janet> YES! YES YES YES! YOU'VE REALLY GOT IT!!

<Julie> all I keep picturing is a scenery of green trees, there you could see the different values of green?

<Janet> YEAH?

<Janet> AND THEN A DIFFERENT VALUED SOMETHING?

<fab> In trees the lighter greens seem to come forward

<Janet> THAT WILL POP TO YOUR FOREGROUND, BECAUSE OF THIS

<Janet> AND THE GRAYER GREENS (EVEN WHEN LIGHTER) WILL MOVE TO THE BACKGROUND.

<Julie> ok, just give me the dunce hat...I'm slow :)

<Stampverb> Many (all TOO many, imho) web sites suffer from having the text be close in value to the background -- the web designers think that because the HUE is different it's readable, but the brain strains to decipher items that are close in VALUE to their surroundings

<Janet> I THINK THAT'S CUZ WE KNOW THE FARTHER OUT IT GOES, THE MORE "ATMOSPHERE" GRAYS THE COLOR

<Janet> YES VERB!!

<Janet> VALUE IS RELATIVE

<Stampverb> drives me nuts

<Janet> TWO GREENS, SAME HUE BUT DIFFERENT VALUES, ARE MUCH MORE READABLE

<Janet> IN FACT, ON THESE COLOR PAGES I'M NOT USING BLACK WORDS, I'M USING AN 80% GRAY

<Janet> AND IT LOOKS BLACK BECAUSE, WELL, BECAUSE VALUE IS RELATIVE

<Stampverb> also, good use of differing values can make a big difference for viwers with some degree of color-blindness

<cak> why did you choose to use the gray? So it wasn't so harsh?

<Janet> IF i HAD A BLACK OR DARK GRAY BACKGROUND, A 10 PERCENT GRAY WOULD LOOK WHITE, BUT LOOK A LOT MORE BETTAH

<Janet> I THINK JUST SO I COULD SAY ONE MORE TIME...

<Janet> VALUE IS RELATIVE<G>

<cak> lol

<Janet> ALSO...

<Janet> FOR THE MOST PART...

<Janet> WHEN YOU'RE OUT IN THE WORLD, YOU DON'T SEE MANY STARK WHITES OR PURE BLACKS

<Janet> YOUR BRAIN MAY THINK YOU DO, BUT MOSTLY THEY ARE VALUES OF GRAY

<Janet> IN THE SCANNER CLASS WE TALK ABOUT TRIMMING THE COLORS USED IN A GRAPHIC SO THE LIGHTEST COLOR REALLY IS WHITE, AND THE DARKEST IS REALLY BLACK

<Julie> so why do we usually stamp in black?

<Janet> WHICH INTENSIFIES ALL THE OTHER COLORS IN IT

<Janet> I DON'T KNOW

<Janet> OF COURSE THE WAY I STAMP, MY BLACK USUALLY IS HIT AND MISS GRAYS

<fab> I sometimes like to use a brown or grey instead of black

<Jambalaya> because when most of us started stamping, the only ink pads we had were from office supply, black or red<g>

<Janet> BUT ALSO, THE MORE REALISTICALLY COLORED OF OUR STUFF DOES TEND TO COVER UP THAT BLACK LINE, DOESN'T IT?

<Janet> LOL THAT'S WHY, JAMS.

<Janet> GOTTA BE.

<Julie> lol

<fab> pencil and chalk do soften the black

<Janet> THEY DO! COLORED PENCILS AND WE ALWAYS SMOOTH OVER THAT BLACK LINE

<Janet> IT'S MORE PLEASING TO OUR EYES

<Janet> (OR OUR BRAINS, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE?)

<Janet> (DON'T LOOK TO ME FOR THAT ANSWER, THAT'S A RHETORICAL QUESTION.<G>)

<fab> The eye is just the lens for the brain

<Janet> THANK YOU, FABULICIOUS

<Jambalaya> well, not really

<Janet> BUT THERE'S JUST AN INCH OR SO DIFFERENCE, SO I SAY CLOSE ENOUGH<G>

<Jambalaya> people who are colorblind aren't necessarily brain damaged

<fab> It is the brain that makes sense of what we "see"

<Janet> PEOPLE WHO ARE COLOR BLIND ARE USUALLY MALE. SO, UH, NUFF SAID?<G>

<cak> lol

<fab> lol

<Jambalaya> lol, ya

<Janet> UH, THE LAST PAGE HERE IS MY CONTRAST PAGE, IT JUST SHOWS YOU WHAT YOU ALREADY KNOW

<Janet> OUR EYES ARE TYPICALLY DRAWN TO THE POINT OF HIGHEST CONTRAST

<Janet> OUR EYES ARE USUALLY (BUT NOT ALWAYS) DRAWN TO THE LARGEST ELEMENT OF HIGHEST CONTRAST

<Janet> LOW CONTRAST CAN MOVE ELEMENTS TO THE BACKGROUND OF ATTENTION IN AN IMAGE AND LOWER THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT ELEMENT.

<Janet> THIS IS A DUH, I ALREADY KNEW THAT THING

<Janet> BUT IF YOU'LL BRING THIS DUH AND THE DUH THAT IS VALUE IS ALWAYS RELATIVE, BRING THOSE TO THE FRONT OF YOUR HEAD AS YOU STUDY COMPOSITIONS, YOU'LL GET A HANDLE ON MASTERING THESE FOR YOURSELF

<Janet> SO YOUR HOMEWORK FOR NEXT WEEK IS TO LOOK AND SEE THE USE OF VALUES AND VALUE RELATIONSHIPS TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE COMMUNICATION OF A MESSAGE

<Janet> LOOK AT ADS

<Janet> BILLBOARDS

<fab> So we can choose to have the design or the words be the dominant thing

<Janet> PICTURES

<Janet> YES YOU CAN!

<Janet> OR SEE, I GOT A SERIOUSLY COOL CARD FROM WANDA TODAY

<Janet> ALL DONE IN ALMOST THE SAME VALUES OF SEPIA INK

<Janet> FOR SURE ALL THE SAME HUE

<fab> The old master painted this way.......using light to emphasize what they wanted you to see

<Janet> IT'S THE HIGHEST CONTRAST IN THIS CARD THAT DRAWS MY EYE

<Janet> YES!

<fab> Can we see the card?

<Janet> THE HIGHEST CONTRAST IN THIS CARD IS THE QUOTE, BECAUSE IT IS THE DARKEST OF THE SEPIA ON THE LIGHTEST OF THE SEPIA AS BACKGROUND

<Janet> I NEED TO SCAN IT, I WILL FOR NEXT WEEK.

<fab> ty

<Wanda> I should have a pic, I'll check

<Janet> COOL QUOTE TOO. ART IS THE ONLY WAY TO RUN AWAY WITHOUT LEAVING HOME.

<fab> But I may miss next week. Got Grandson arriving Thursday night

<Stampverb> billboards are good samples to check out--they need to make their point/ send the message in a very short time

<fab> I'll be looking for the logs

<Janet> AND THERE'S SOME RICK RACK ON IT, AND THE BOW OF THE RICKRACK POINTS YOU ON DOWN TO THE QUOTE, IN CASE YOU DIDN'T START THERE.

<Janet> YES! LOOK AT THE BILL BOARDS

<Janet> FAB, WE'LL GO SLOW NEXT WEEK<G>

<Janet> WE'RE GOING TO MOVE A BIT TO COLOR RELATIONSHIPS

<Stampverb> you won't see no stinking similar values on billboards! -- for a reason!

<Janet> FOR SURE! YOU'LL BE FINDING CONTRAST THAT POPS

<fab> They have to communicate in seconds

<Janet> (BECAUSE VALUE IS RELATIVE<G>)

<Janet> OR LESS, IF I'M DRIVING<G>

<Janet> FLIP THROUGH THE MAGAZINE ADS, LIKE IN TIME OR NEWSWEEK OR WELL THE MAGS AT THE DOCTOR'S OFFICE.

<Janet> IF YOU FIND ONE THAT SHOWS THIS USING VALUE TO HELP COMMUNICATE, AND YOU CAN, SCAN IT FOR US NEXT WEEK

<Janet> OR CASUALLY TAKE THE MAG INTO THE EXAMINING ROOM WITH YOU, YOU CAN RIP OUT THE AD IN THERE WITHOUT THE RECEPTIONIST SEEING YOU.

<Janet> DON'T ASK ME HOW I KNOW THAT.

<cak> lol

<Janet> ANY QUESTIONS ON VALUE AND CONTRAST?

<Janet> I THINK I DID OVERKILL ON THIS<G>

<Janet> BUT I SEE IT AS THE MOST IMPORTANT

<Julie> no, I think it was great Janet

<Janet> WELL, AND I GOT INTO PLAYING IN GRAYSCALE, TOO

<cak> can we talk about eye movement too?

<Janet> THANKS. WAS IT BORING?

<Janet> SURE!

<cak> not at all

<Janet> THAT'S ON DOWN A WEEK OR THREE.

<Wanda> not boring at all

<Julie> no, not at all

<cak> it's something that isn't addressed nearly as often as it should be

<joy> good info

<fab> Thanks for a good class

<Janet> WELL, TELL ME OR TELL JAMS WHEN IT GETS TO BE, OR i'LL SPREAD THIS OUT FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS<G>

<joy> great, spread it out

<Janet> THEORY FASCINATES ME.

<Janet> LOL

<fab> I thought this was a three week plan????

<Jambalaya> i think folks want it janet, spread it out

<cak> I need this type of information. It fills my toolbox with useful tools, not just recipes to follow

<Janet> I'M NO FRED MULLET. HE CAN DO THIS IN AN HOUR OR LESS. I NEED A MONTH.<G>

<Janet> IT WAS, BUT I BEGGED FOR MORE TIME

<fab> ok

<Janet> RECIPES DON'T DO ME ANY GOOD, CUZ I FORGET THEM

<cak> (he's not doing with a spread out audience)

<Janet> CONCEPTS I LIVE WITH

<Wanda> great class, Janet. I gotta go put the boys to bed. Nite, all.

<Stampverb> oooh -- before y'all leave.....

<joy> take all the time you need, it's a basic that is hard to teach and we really do need to learn

<Janet> Y'ALL TAKE CARE.

<Janet> YES, VERB?

<Stampverb> Reminder: this month's Mystery Stamp is fron Jhone -- and it is FABULOUS, y'all!

<Janet> I THINK IT'S KEY TO COMPOSITION.

<Janet> OH I DO WANT THAT MYSTERY STAMP FOR SURE

<Jambalaya> yes, you all really want mystery stamp, trust me

<Stampverb> a great stamp with which to play with these color theories!!!

<Jambalaya> it's a really cool stamp

<Wanda> I got mine, Verb, and the ideas are running wild :-)

<Janet> I ALWAYS DO<G>

<fab> Mine is ordered

<Janet> COLOR THEORY IS ALL AROUND US! EVEN WHEN I JUST USED GRAY

<Stampverb> great! let's overwhelm Jam with scans for the Unveiling!

<Janet> NEXT WEEK I'LL USE A COLOR OR TWO<G>

<Janet> I GOTTA GO EAT.

<Stampverb> thanks, Janet

<cak> Thanks Janet!

<joy> thanks Janet

<Julie> thanks Janet!

<Janet> JAMS, I'LL GIVE A REALLY TRULY NAME TO THESE AND SEND THAT TO YOU

<Jambalaya> ty janet, great class

<Janet> THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE!!

<Julie> good night all!

<Jambalaya> k

<cak> Night Julie

<Janet> WATCH THOSE VALUES! THEY'RE RELATIVE! :)

Log file closed at: 6/14/05 10:10:00 PM